When is Ultimate going to be considered a legitimate professional sport?

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[yaganon]

If Ultimate becomes a NCAA sport, and there's actually recruiting stuff going on (not just with Carlton btw), this sport is going to be wild. I understand that Ultimate is pretty new compared to other sports, which I think is why it's not as popular as I think it ought to be.

I seriously think Ultimate should expand not just into the NCAA, but also eventually into the Olympics. I mean if they have the biathalon, ice dancing, then I don't understand why ultimate can't be in there as well.

[teedaledge]

I think a big part of making Ultimate a legitimate sport is having some kind of officiating, other than play calls by players on the field. I realize that this takes out Spirit of the Game as a form of encouraging fair play, but this sport cannot be legitimized as a competitive sport until we take the burden of officiating from the players on the field.

[yaganon]

that's a good point. But they do have refs at the national tournament.

[wally]

I completely disagree with the idea that having refs makes the game more legitimate.  It's a common claim, but only because all the big "legitimate" sports have refs, so that's what people expect to see.  The level of play of ultimate at the top level is extraordinary, and those games do not suffer from the lack of refs.

World Games is the closest ultimate has ever come to being a "legitimate" sport.  High level games played under WFDF rules (no observers/refs, just linesmen who's main job is to signal on field calls to the crowd), and the crowd of thousands of non-players loving it. 

The word on the street is that before the games the president of the World Games association told WFDF that ultimate would be out of the next games unless it introduced proper refs.  After the games the same man was a big fan of self-refereed sport.  It may have something to do with Ultimate being the biggest drawcard of the tournament (more than Rugby 7s).  Also the games were just fantastic to watch.

Ultimate, as a self-refereed sport, can be amazing to watch.  The only thing stopping it getting a fan base of non players is IMHO the level of play.  UPA finals might be awesome, World Games might be awesome, but even at WUCC and WUGC the really elite teams don't go that deep, and as such there are a lot of games that aren't that great to watch.

I'm assuming by your mention of Olympics that you don't mean professional in the true sense, as in players getting paid.

[rrudnic]

I don't think ref's are needed to make it a legitimate sport, go watch some video from Nationals and tell me those aren't ridiculous athletes and it isn't a sport. I think they are needed in some form to make it a more accepted sport though. People have this preconcieved notion of sports having refs or judges and so that hurts ultimate.

As for olympics that will be a long time coming, I've seen the discussion somewhere before but you need to have national governing bodies in a certain percentage of the countries on earth to even be considered and ultimate isn't even remotely close to the number needed (less then 1/2 way there as I recall). Even then there are a bunch of other qualifyiers and you have to convince a bunch of old outdated men running the olympics that its a good idea and people will watch and all that. Ultimate having a sort of counterculture perception will make that hard for a long time. I wouldn't expect to see it anytime in the next 20 years at least. My yet to be born son or daughter will probably be playing ultimate on a college team before I see ultimate in the olympics.

[teedaledge]

Let me qualify my statement: I don't believe that refs are necessary in order to have the extremely high level of play observed at the UPA championships, or at the World Games. I do believe that having supplementary play calling would greatly increase the legitimacy of Ultimate as a sport among non-ultimate persons. As such, I don't think the College Championships or any regional tournament should have refs. But, if Ultimate were to become a professional sport, I anticipate changing attitudes about the inclusion of refs in a professional or olympic game.

[tommynomad]

disclaimer: I love the Olympic Games.

The IOC, for all its pronouncements of fair play and equality, is a sexist, out-of-touch organisation that's more interested in pampering its members every two years than it is in sport.  The spirit of Ultimate runs counter to almost everything the IOC represents.  I don't want Ulti at the olympics, because it would per se mean the end of the sport as we know it.

The World Games participation was a huge success.  Even before that, WUCC 2006 brought Asian ultimate to the world stage in a huge way, which really helped in internationalising our game.  Many of the teams there were sponsored up the ass, effectively making them semi-professional.  And the level of athleticism and competition at the top was excellent.

Ultimate doesn't need the Olympics to be great, international, and top-level: it already is, and growing.  Maybe someday the IOC will come to us.  I'm not holding my breath, but I hope when the day comes, we turn them and their anachronistic ways down flat. 

[Ka-ching]

I think having refs for the tournament games would be good for the game. I think "non Ultimate" people would better consider it this way. For example, if it were to be in the Olympics, there could be some pretty stirred up, and angry controversy over the calls. Having refs would fix that a great deal I think.

If only there was a professional league like the NBA, NFL, NHL, MLS or MLB (talking more about the states ). Having a league like that would be really good for the game. You could play it in a stadium have fans and all that sort. Much like Major League Soccer, where athletes are paid well for competing. Being paid for it would be great, that way people could make a living playing Ultimate and collages could recruit players and all that. Maybe televise it... of course, there would have to be many more fans out there for all that to happen.

Hehe I'm not much of an expert on Ultimate... those were just some of my thoughts...    

And I know that's not very likely to happen in the near future.... but maybe... some time.

[Basic]

This has to be one of the most overdone debates in ultimate.  The bottom line is that there is absolutely no advantage to having the responsibility of foul calling be placed solely on the players. 

When there is actually something on the line (money, gold medals), you can't let the sport hinge on a single player making the right decision.  The way the sport is now (tight knit community, under the radar) self-refereeing works, but if Ultimate ever took off there is no way refs won't be added.  And seriously there isn't a bigger buzz-kill than watching a 15 minute argument between two players to decide a call that would be decided in seconds by a ref. 

[ernestbob]

This is one of the hardest sports I've ever played.  We just need some investment and some businessman to get it going...

[Pepper]

I don't think it is going to take 1 businessman. Otherwise it would have already happened. I believe that if Ultimate is to become a big global sport, the following will/should happen:

1) Airtime on television or Internet sports channels that connect to the masses
2) Sponsors for shirts (due to 1)
3) Tournaments (or sponsors) offering prize money for winning tournaments (or leagues of course)
4) Refs and paid coaches enter the frame due to 3

As soon as that has happened I think that a cycle is created that can lift the sport to a global sport. The States are on their way of making some of these things happen on the scale that is needed I think, but I am no expert on the numbers regarding Ultimate in the USA.

[rrudnic]

The UPA College Championships are getting some airtime on the CBS college sports channel or whatever it is, like 3 or 4 days total I think. But its not until well over a month after the actual tournament.

A few tournaments have gotten sponsored by products that fit like energy drink and protein bars and things of that nature. But I haven't seen that at a lot of places.

There are also a couple tournaments offering prize money for winning now, and plenty of them offer a free bid to next years event to the winner which is a smaller prize.

None of that is really at a scale where its creating a mainstream effect though, its specific products or tournaments trying to get into a new niche. 

[Pepper]

Indeed. I wasn't so much talking about it happening once, but more in terms of when the standard is that way. 1 tournament offering prize money or a couple hours air time isn't going to change the world of ultimate obviously.

I just hope that these small events trigger more people to start playing. Most people that do start tend to like the game. At least that is my experience. The only thing I am uncertain about is the viewability of the sports as compared to basketball for example. Then again, baseball, soccer (football for everyone but you silly Americans ) and American Football aren't the best viewing sports either. Yet those are watched by millions world-wide...