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Author Topic: help with zone defense, and offense  (Read 7725 times)
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bwhite55
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« on: May 09, 2008, 07:29:24 AM »

so, just went to another semi-local game on tuesday, and unlike our pickup games, they were playin a cup(whereas we played a cup a total of 3 times in 2-3 years.) and i have no experience with it.  i was put on wing position.  the way they were explaining it the wings just hang out in the sideline to prevent a throw to the deep because if it gets there, the only guy after wing is deep, and everybody else is on the other side of the field.  i'm so used to playin man, i want to come up to a short throw to a popper.  any way i can break myself of this habit or any videos you guys know of to help me get an idea of what the wings are supposed to do and how a zone d is supposed to be played out?

also, i'm a handler and was playin ratchet at one point, but am kind of confused about the popper's roll in a zone offense.  one guy said that the popper are supposed to move in and out like pistons and on a high stall count they'll occasionally run straight through the cup and get it and put it to another handler to reset the stall, as well as they are to make mid range cuts and stuff, always moving in and out.  another guy said that a good popper tries to get the wings to bite and bring them up so that the handler can get it around the wing and then look downfield for a deep cut and possibly a huck....i've tried to find videos of this and i can't find any good videos.  and also, as a handler, should i chill in space or try to make cuts as well against the cup?  because one of the guys said that they normally just put it into space away from the D and you go to it, so i don't know if that means, chill in space or make cuts in and out?  and as a ratchet should i be set as a dump, or more of a swing position, because i was going to both, depending on how the cup was positioned.

i guess its all situational, but i'm wanting to get advice on zone o and d because we are playing a tourney in 2 weeks that's basically at the beach, so it'll be fairly windy and i know we'll see a ton of zone d. 
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Seppo
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« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2008, 03:46:04 PM »

Yo yo,

Right on bwhite!  Stepping up your game to the level of zone O and D.  Cool

You've posed some good questions and I'll do my best to answer them the way I've come to play and understand zone O and D over the years.

First of all, just so you know there are a variety of zone D formations these days.  I've seen everything from the standard 3-3-1 (which is what you speak of) to 4-2-1 to 2-3-2 to 1-3-3.  They all have their pros and cons, and it really depends on the level of the offense team you're playing against as to which formation is most beneficial.  I'm waiting for someone to develop the 1-0-6, but not sure how that would work.  Wink

Anyway, as you pointed out zone O and D is really all about ebbing and flowing.  You can say that the purpose of the offensive handlers is to do this, and the offensive wings and deeps is to do that.  But what it really comes down to is finding whatever opportunities are available at that exact moment in time to advance the disc (aka finding the holes in the zone D).  Sometimes that may mean breaking away from the "norm" of your zone 0 setup, but if it works then the goal was accomplished.

In general, you'll wanna follow these guidelines for 3-3-1- zone O and D.

Zone D
  • The Cup must always remember that they are not 3 individual pieces of the puzzle but rather a unit.  They must act as though there is a rope of equal length tied between them (A to B, B to C).  It doesn't help to have A race over to stop the upfield progression when the disc gets swung, only to have B & C lag behind.  All this does is open up the middle of the field which is not good.  I find that the cup should consist of the fittest and most agile of the D team, as they are going to do a lot of running back and forth which is obviously tiring.
  • The Wings have a little more liberation in the movements.  Yes, they must ALWAYS protect the swung disc from easily getting progressed up the line.  This is a primary job of theirs.  As you said bwhite, you tend to sneak in to guard the short throw to a popper.  This is definitely a no-no.  Unless you have a good chance and making a D bid on the disc, you should forget about that throw.  Assume it's complete and STOP THE PROGRESSION!  Now, when the disc is on side A, the wing defending side B can creep in a bit.  He can cause traffic and pressure in the middle of the field, thus making passes more difficult in that area.  But he should always keep an eye on the B side and never let an easy swing-to-upfield pass or hammer-over-the-top pass be completed.
  • The Deeps role is pretty obvious: Don't let any offensive player score by way of a big huck.  He should only play as short as the last offensive player is deep.  If all of the offensive players are in short he can move forward and apply some pressure, but as soon as someone breaks away ... back he must go.  Obviously you want your tallest or highest jumper playing Deep, to defend the sky against the huck.

One general thought about zone D is that no matter what position you're playing in it, you must always be aware of your surroundings.  Turn your head and look to your left, your right and even behind you.  See how the zone O is reacting to your zone D and adjust accordingly.

Zone O
  • The Handlers primary role is to keep the disc moving (preferably upfield).  However, the most common throw made by and zone O handler is the dump/swing to the other side of the field.  That's how zone O works.  By swinging the disc back and forth you cause the zone D to react.  In doing so, the zone D is like the blob in a lava lamp.  It ebbs and flows in various directions, and every so often it breaks apart.  That's what the zone O hopes will happen, and when it does ... BAM ... that's when you strike!

    However, while the handlers mainly keep the disc moving, they can also progress the disc themselves.  There are no rules against it, that's for sure.  If one of the handlers sees that the cup has broken apart and drifted deep, nothing prevents him from shooting upfield for a quick 5 yard gainer.  Anything goes in zone O.  The rules are minimal.
  • The Middles (aka poppers) in my mind are the key components to a zone O.  As the disc gets swung back and forth among the handlers, it's the goal of the middles to find those holes in the lava lamp blob.  When they see the hole, they strike hard and fast.  And when they do, what happens next must be decided very quickly.

    The middle who now posses the disc can and should look to progress the disc forward either to the other middle or one of the deeps.  And he's in a perfect position to do so.  Think about it.  The disc was just swung and thanks to a hole in the cup the disc was also progressed 10 yards forward and well past the cup.  For that brief moment while the cup repositions itself, the middle has nothing but an open field to continue progression of the disc.  Hopefully, he can do so, but in the off-chance that he cannot that's when he looks to dump the disc to a handler who then starts the whole process over again.
  • The Deeps primary goal is to field those progressive throws from the middles and handlers.  As soon as that cup has been broken, it's up to the deeps to get and be open for that next pass.  The deeps can also sometimes sneak past the Deep D player to receive a big huck.  Again, anything goes.  Find those breakdowns in the zone D and capitalize upon them.

One general thought about Zone O is that a cut or movement is not always about receiving the disc.  As you pointed out bwhite, sometimes the goal of a cut is to open up space.  For example, both poppers can flood to one side of the field.  What good does this do?  Well, more than likely they will not get the disc, because as they flood the zone D (and especially the cup) reacts and collapses upon them.  But, what it DOES do is open the remaining part of the field, say for perhaps a wing to receive a big gainer upfield.  It's not uncommon to look at a zone O being played and think it's just hectic, out-of-control Ultimate.  However, when played properly and practiced often, you'll find that every cut has a purpose, be it to get open and receive the disc or to open up space for someone else to receive the disc.

Again, both zone O and D are extremely transformational.  Unlike a man-to-man situation, this is more like blob-to-blob, and the blob that does the best job at adjusting over and over again is the blob that's gonna win in the end.  Wink

Hope this helps ya.

- Seppo #22

P.S.  The use of the words "he", "him", "man" etc are for generic purposes only.  I could of just as easily used "she", "her", "woman", etc.  Don't hate, the Seppo loves ya ladies.  Kiss
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bwhite55
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2008, 11:41:58 PM »

thanks for everything seppo.  i love playing zone...we played man at our games today, and it just wasn't as fun...but maybe thats becuase i was stuck covering the guy that sprints all day without getting tired for the first 3 points, and we only had enough for 5v5 and didn't have a sub for the first 4 points, so needless to say, i was not havin fun.
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gref
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 08:49:59 PM »

  I'm waiting for someone to develop the 1-0-6, but not sure how that would work.  Wink

Already done.
It's called the Box D.
There's also a 6-0-1 called the Cuposaurus, but that isn't as effective. Smiley
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dit_al_eire
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2008, 11:32:41 AM »

ive played a kinda 1-0-6 called the comedy zone...one person is chasing and the rest just stand on their endzone line...its is usually used as a punishment..if you turn up late for the first game on the sunday morning then you're going to be running... it worked a few times
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Lex
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2008, 06:08:27 PM »

Disc-respect much?
Disrespect?

-Alex
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 06:10:31 PM by Lex » Logged


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Hammer from sash to monkey man. 16-11. It's all over. Just quietly, i'm smashed! Yeah chilly!
Yeah, I'd have to agree with Lex.
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