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Author Topic: The Puppy Fence Zone Defence  (Read 13153 times)
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« on: July 23, 2008, 03:55:39 AM »

Thank you Tim Booth.

I'm not sure what other people call this, but for a long time i've been hearing about Pommys, Puppys and Puppy Fences. I just assumed they were the same thing, but I wasn't sure.

Then I had the fortune of playing with the illustrious Tim Booth at the ECC vs Thunder all-star game. We played the Pommy vs Thunder and the Puppy Fence.

Pommy is a Zone Defence.
Puppy Fence is a Hybrid Defence (ie. Man and Zone mixed together)

Theres another thread about the Pommy going on. I just wanted to talk about the Puppy Fence. Try and clear up a misconception. It may be me that is wrong. I'd like to hear what everyone else calls the following zone.

1 man on the mark.
3 men in a wall infront of the mark (these are in man-mark, i'll go into more depth in a sec)
2 wings.
1 deep.

The man on the mark, the wings and the deep play like they would for a conventional Pommy. Its the wall that is different.

The "wall" is evenly spaced across the field, upfield from the disc. Spaced about 2m apart. These guys are in man mark. They track incoming cuts (until the get really close to the disc) and any away going cuts until they become the wing's province, or another incoming cut is developing.

Basically, this zone forced a quick turn because it confused the Thunder Offense. It looked like a pommy, but it shut down poppers and in-cuts. So whilst the swing was partially unguarded (the zone can flex in a high stall count), the tiny lil' pop passes Thunder had been using were partially shut down. It only worked twice (i think.....) . One was a poachy d by a wallman. Another was a throw away. After that, Thunder adapted well and we didn't pull it again. (Thunder adapted surprisingly well, considering the amount of pressure that was physically and mentally placed upon the boys.)

Point is, is this a puppy fence? And the "pommy" a pommy?
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« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 10:08:48 AM »

I'm pretty sure that pommy/puppy and fence are just 1/3/3 zones.

Theres always lots of different ways to play depending on the wind and what you want...

You can play very loose wall which would be Mark forces one direction, axis stops upfield and break throws between him and mark, on point stops other upfield and the offpoint poaches and even looks away from the disc to watch up field cutters and poach the 3rd handler.
you could even have a force forwards mark (eg on a high stall) and a flat wall that just stands in front of the disc...
you could side line trap, mark forces forwards, wing guards line, on point becomes axis of wall stopping upfield, axis moves to on point position and off point moves to some crazy poachy spot!

therse lots of ways to play a 1/3/3 depending on what it hopes to achieve, but they're still 1/3/3 zones.

this is a pretty cool blog: sifultimate.blogspot.com (check us out)
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 05:52:48 AM »

The way I had it explained to me (don't remember who by though) is that "Puppy" has one man on the mark always forcing to the nearest sideline, a three man wall who are relatively close together in a horizontal line blocking upfield passes and then two wings and a deep...
"Pommy" however was explained to me as one man on the mark always forcing away from the dump, a three man wall with the axis and "on" point blocking upfield passes and the "off" point blocking the swing pass across field and then two wings and a deep.
The difference there being mainly in the way the wall behaves and slight differences in the mark. In Puppy you're trying to stop upfield movement (with the wall) and pin them on the line (with the mark). A Pommy therefore a much more aggressive version of Puppy, the wall isn't necessarily a close tight line but has a bit more of a curve (particularly if you're in a direct line with the swing) on it to really pile on the pressure on the thrower, ideally forcing a turnover when you can isolate a "weaker" thrower and cut all upfield and dump options...
But I think that all being said each team/clubs version of pommy/puppy is different and the real difference between them is less than their names indicate, I'm of the opinion that the difference between what I call "pommy" and what I call "puppy" is less than the difference Mac Uni/Hills/Fakulti/I call pommy (having played for all those teams I know each one has a different "pommy/puppy" and you call pommy... It's all in "how you play it", what you expect from it and how you've trained to do it.
I guess what I'm saying is maybe "your" pommy and Tim Booth's "puppy" are actually just different variations of the same thing, with slightly different names and one variation was more effective...

Or I could just be talking out my ass

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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2008, 08:09:46 AM »

The basic difference between pommy and puppy that i have found is that;
In Puppy:
1. puppy forces sideline
2. wall is straight, stopping upfield throw

In Pommy:
1. pommy blocks the dump
2. wall is curved, off point blocks swing

generally pommy requires more communication

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