Mixed Strategy

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[Leo]

Hi all,

I am looking for some (creative) mixed strategies, other than have one guy isolated and going long for a huck  and was hoping for some help. We have very mixed skills within our team, some women being good handlers, some great speed, but no great throws and the same going for the men. (Which of course we are working on!  )
Anything on D would also be greatly appreciated!

[Seppo]

Hey Leo,

One strategy that I've long been a fan of is the ol' Dominator.  Basically, you have your three handlers work the disc all the way down the field.  The stack continually moves backwards giving the handlers as much space as possible for them to work their quick cutting magic.  Once they are close to the endzone they continue to work the disc until they score and/or they try to get the disc to the isolator (determined before the start of the point) for the score.

This strategy works especially well when you have a strong handling set.  And in your case, it will work VERY well if your women handlers are strong and can effectively execute this strategy.

You might also try your European counterpart's strategy (in this case Germany) which they call the Feldrenner.  In this strategy, you have 3 handlers spread across the field, 3 deeps spread across the field and then 1 Feldrenner who works the middle of the field.  Essentially, you want your uber-awesome-best-studly player as the Feldrenner.  Someone who can pretty much easily get open and get any contested or uncontested disc.  The Feldrenner is given LOTS of space, meaning the 3 deep players must place themselves very far downfield.

Getting the disc to the Feldrenner should be fairly easy, as a handler has many throwing options (the break throw works a treat here).  Once the Feldrenner gets the disc he/she is looking to progress the disc to one of the deep players.

Give those strategies a try and see how you go.

Good luck!

- Seppo #22

[Leo]

Hi Seppo!

Thanks for that! We actually already run the Dominator, although we call it differently, and we don't usually play it 'single-sex', but that if definitely something we could try!

I have played the iso (your Feldrenner) with the women's team, but have never tried it mixed, definitely an option, probably with men in handling and the women deep.

I think the hardest bit for women  is the throwing deep bit here... I have a pretty decent long throw in a women's game, but it is simply not good enough when there are men around  I guess strategies will have to take that into account 

Any calls on D, apart from hard man? 

[Seppo]

Yeah, try dominating with just your women.  It can be tough if men poach in, but it can also work well if the opposing women can't keep up (aka they are unfit or inexperienced).

When it comes to defense, you might try the great variety of zones (3-3-1, 4-2-1, 1-3-3, Clam, etc).  You could also throw the ol' Assassination into the mix.  This comes in handy when you have one person on the opposing team who seems to touch the disc every 2nd throw.  Basically they are the goto guy/girl.  If this is the case, you can run a typical zone (3-3-1) but instead change it to 3-2-1 and have the extra guy/girl play man on the opposing team's goto player.  Essentially you are trying to stop that person from getting the disc so much, and hope a turnover comes as a result of the shutdown D.

Another thing to add to your zone defense is the Trap.  Basically, when the disc gets to one side of the field (preferably the down wind side), you immediately alter the zone to a Trap setup.  There are many ways to do this, but I like it when the middle of the cup jumps on the mark, the farside man in the cup takes away the dump and the nearside man in the cup takes away the line.  This move can be particularly helpful when one of the outer handles on the opposing team is weak.  You open up your cup a bit and let them get the disc with ease, and then BAM...set the Trap!

Perhaps some of those setups might help your team out.

Tally ho!

- Seppooooooooooo

[Tenk283]

Its truly a wonderful thing when you have really good women on a team. It gives you sooo much more depth.

When you have a really good handler-esque female, the best thing to do is let them handle. A really good female handler is normally able to make basically any throw she wants. Which is more than I can say for most good male handlers. So some sort of Iso play works well in this situation. Especially if you have one or more excellent female recievers.

The trick is to take the selfish guys out of the play. So, a really big iso is basically what you need. A sandshoe is one of the better iso plays to run.

1/3/1/2

1 man is the "sandshoe", he is the safety option. He bludges way behind the play. He also catches the pull.
3 man handler iso, these three work it up the field.
1 man further upfield called the "focus". He gets the disc closer to the endzone and looks to throw the point (enter, handler-esque female)
2 man in the endzone as the scorers. They cut off the focus looking to catch and score.

Now, if the sandshoe and three middle handlers are all men, that makes scoring the point soooo much easier. Guys get really pumped up when they are defending their endzone, they run harder and they make crazy layouts they wouldn't normally make onfield.

If the focus is the type of player that can make "any" throw she wants, and there are two excellent female recievers working off her, goals should be super easy to come by.

In the most part, I would say; don't be afraid to mix things up. If you have a player, that is particularly good at something, play them in a position that will give them frequent opportunity to utilize those skills.

eg. If you have a girl who is super fit and speedy: call her as the mark in a pommy zone. Girls are generally more intelligent in the way they approach the game than guys (we just go tear-ass-ing around full speed and don't use our brains). In a pommy, a fit and intelligent mark is much better than just a fit mark.

Or a girl that has really good field sense, play her as a wing.

A burning reciever is best going deep off a a throwing primary. BUT: call a feldrenner with her as the feldrenner. Even if she gains 10m then dumps. If she can do it 5 times, you're just about to the endzone. The feld doesn't have to throw the point either, they can just dump it to a more accomplished thrower and they can bomb the point.

[DaveR]

have a look at this for a great set of artciles about maximising your strengths on mixed strategy....maybe moire useful for elite but certainly good things to think about for all levels.

http://www.the-huddle.org/features/mixed-strategy/

[rrudnic]

Anyone ever seen a 3 woman cup? I have seen it once I assume the goal was to have all your guys out to get D's but it didn't really work the ladies got worn down with lots of swinging. Just thought it was interesting that they even tried it.

[DaveR]

we play a three woman cup all the time on my team, because the guys can cover more ground as wings and deeps, with a guy also on the mark in pommy. our ladies have lots of endurance (cos we make them do it all the time ), and it is mroe important that they work as a team than be really fast, and having one guy in there wont make it any mroe cohesive (infact a guy on the point is more likely to go to fast and leave a hole between him and the axis).

[Tenk283]

Anyone ever seen a 3 woman cup? I have seen it once I assume the goal was to have all your guys out to get D's but it didn't really work the ladies got worn down with lots of swinging. Just thought it was interesting that they even tried it.

As Maple said, Suufa make their women run in the wall in the pommy all the time. So do most teams here. A cohesive wall is very important.

But, like basically all teams, they aren't willing to play women on the wing or deep because of the ol' physical ability. Guys can jump higher in the majority of cases. As a result, women are kinda stuck in the wall or on the mark.

[simmo]

On zone D - line up everyone from deepest -> mark in terms of most experienced -> least experienced. Mark and cup/fence are quite easy to play (aside from the fitness), while wings and deep need a bit more smartness.

On zone O - two handlers, three poppers (1m 2f) with the guy running in through the cup and the girls sitting just behind the cup for the throw through the gap.

On man D - guys play hard man, girls poach off weak throwers and clog the cutting lane.

On man O - guys being marked by dominant male defenders come back and handle, drawing their player out of the way to avoid poach Ds on girls.

[luweekoh]

On zone D - line up everyone from deepest -> mark in terms of most experienced -> least experienced. Mark and cup/fence are quite easy to play (aside from the fitness), while wings and deep need a bit more smartness.

simon, as someone who nearly always plays on the mark i resent that comment...!

i reckon if you want to set up an effective zone the mark HAS to be smart i.e they should anticipate what the handlers want to throw and shut down those options. its not about running quickly (although that helps) but running smartly. positioning is also very important. if you put an inexperienced player on the mark they WILL get broken FREQUENTLY which opens up the handlers options to send it to the wind-deeps and poppers.  AND the cup and pommy will get tired very quickly.

[simmo]

Don't get me wrong champ, I think the mark does need to be clued in to what's going on, but I think it's a lot easier to teach/learn how to play mark than it is to play wing or deep. Marking in a zone is trickier than marking normally, but you're only really worrying about the thrower (and perhaps the dump). When playing as a wing, you're looking after a handler, an O wing/deep and (potentially) one or two poppers. With every throw, you need to make a decision as to what to defend to minimise the risk of being blown open. A mistake by a wing can be a lot more costly than a mistake by a mark.

[Tanty]

I'm with Luwee on this one... I can't think of something that would be more frustrating than trying to play axis (my current spot of choice) to a n00b running around getting broken and forcing the wrong way etc...
Mac has always had a habit of putting n00bs on the wing with plenty of "helpful direction" from the sideline ("NO don't mark him, mark him! Now you can mark him! now him! faster! etc). But that's when we're playing 3 3 1 zone, not  1 3 2 1. We tend to avoid playing pommy/puppy when we have a "n00b heavy" team in favour of 3 3 1 as it's easier to slot n00bs into it (the can play points of the cup or the wing).
As for the mixed team split, for a 3 3 1 mac used to run a cup with 2 guys points and a female axis (the cup queen), two girls on the wing and guys short deep and deep deep. Allowing two "hard" guy marks, and a tall guy deep. For a 1 3 2 1 I know of a lot of teams that run a all girl wall, but I have a tendency to want to play axis there which means one girl generally gets shunted off to the wing... which I don't think is a bad idea, sure she normally doesn't bid for the disc as crazily as a lot of guys will, but that generally means she plays a bit more conservatively too. A massive layout D/High block looks great from a wing, but a missed layout giving the offence the chance to fire another pass down the wing is just as bad as the D is good. Conceivably a chick on the mark would be doable but *generalising* girls aren't as big as guys and not as intimidating on the mark so I've not seen it happen (despite Mac and Fakulbee's "primary" mark being B Sandoval... hardly the biggest or most intimidating chap). But i think variations like that happen between teams/clubs based on what people like to play and what people value the most...

Ah well I think all this post has concluded is everyone plays differently and has different approaches... and I'm yet to see any as conclusively better or worse...

Love, Hugs and Kisses
ANt
(400 words)

[DaveR]

luwee is ahrdly the biggest guy either...but he is active and agile (like brendon) and is good at reading what the throwers want...which is why its important to have experience.

usyd also has carol seeto play on the mark alot...cos she is quick, and has played thatposition alot....and she rocks at it....it helps that she is awesome though...normally the preference would be for a guy on the mark, because of added wing span...but there ar of course exception

[Henry]

You still can't deny the instant fear that people get when someone like Wazza or Goldie are marking you as a puppy.  It might just be because I'm reasonably tall but I don't usually get intimidated by a girl puppy too much, especially when there's a good foot or two above their head that I'm free to throw through