Should referees be used in Ultimate?

[Guest]

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[s0urce]

it's a bit of a catch-22.

I don't think the sport will ever get good public funding until there is an adequate coaching and refereeing structure in place.  In fact, that is CUPA's goal right now to develop the necessary accredited coaching program that Sport Canada requires before recognizing the sport officially.

That being said,  the costs associated with training and paying observers/refs would be too much for any league to bear without subsidization from a publically funded sports organization.

I think they are unnecessary for regular league games, but I would like to see observers in every tournament game.

Full-on referress just invite the notion of cheating, IMO.  Unsavoury players will begin to cheat as much as possible if the ref isn't looking, just like hockey.  You'd need MINIMUM two referees per game.  4 would be best, two to watch play and 2 linesman.

[D_Rocks]

We are trying to conform to televised or at least more publicaly "liked" sports. Why?

Our Sport is very unique in that it was born out of a benevolent anti-establishment idea or movement. it was born from an inteligent point of view to create a sport that bypasses all the macho competitiveness in other sports. This says alot about where the sport should go in the future.

also we are trying to comform to the mainstream style of sports to be more in the public eye. Why? nobody can honestly say when they first played and realized they liked Ultimate it was due to the the lack of refs. The people that will like ultimate will do so because of the sport not because of the presence or absence of refs. The sport will gain popularity through the "education of the masses" like stated earlier. not our willingness to alter our sport.

As far as rule enforcment the instant replays and observers are as far we should go in non-player decision making.

[chargeorge]

I kind of enjoy going into RSD and listening to them arguing about refs. The sides there are so eternally entrenched, and some posters there see literally every single post as form of this debate.  Combine that with the "Jon Gabriel's greater internet fuckwad theory" and you have a recipe for debates that don't do much for anyone.  http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/

The way I see it, self officiating makes ultimate attractive as a character building sport, lowers costs of participation, and makes the sport unique.  On  the downside, the concept is difficult to understand for younger players, makes it harder to become part of existing sports associations and makes the sport unique. 

As long as observers are acceptable to the local athletic associations I think they fit the sport well and do a good enough job of minimizing the negatives without blunting the positives. 

[wally]

World Games 2009 proved that the sport can make it as a popular crowd pleasing sport without refs.  They didn't even have observers, just line assistants who signalled what the call was to the crowd/scorers and helped with in/out or up/down calls if asked (they were rarely called upon - mostly they were just signalling).  It worked a charm, and the crowd (around 40,000 people over 3 days) loved it.

Getting our sport mainstream has less to do with refs and more to do with the quality of play.  Nearly all games at the World Games showcased great play which was worth paying for, and I'm sure there aren't many duds at the UPA finals (maybe there are blowouts, but I'm sure every team plays high quality ultimate).  At other tournaments (e.g. WUGC, WUCC, Australian Nationals) there are still a bunch of teams that couldn't be classed as elite.  This is changing though.

Anyway, the World Games had no refs, no observers, but got great feedback from the crowd and World Games officials (including the World Games Association president, who had previously been against self-refereed sports).