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General => Ulti Talk => Topic started by: Jomskylark on September 30, 2008, 03:19:56 PM



Title: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Jomskylark on September 30, 2008, 03:19:56 PM
Hi,

I am interested in purchasing a few high-quality frisbees for free-style and possible ultimate frisbee games.  This is not for a professional LEVEL of competitions, but rather a personal level.  However, I would prefer good quality and professional FRISBEES.

I am not looking for Disc Golf frisbees, but rather just plain, fun frisbees.

I do not know if this is the appropriate forum, but I am unable to find a better forum.

I am willing to pay a reasonable price ($25 or something... it's a little hazy) for the frisbees.

Thanks!


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Seppo on September 30, 2008, 04:18:01 PM
Greetings Jomskylark,

And welcome to UltiTalk.  8)

You should probably get yourself a Discraft or two.  They are the best frisbees out there, and the official disc of Ultimate Frisbee.

Visit there website for a list of e-taliers who sell them:

http://www.discraft.com

I think Discraft also sells misprints directly from their website for a reasonable price.

You might also check out FlashFlight Frisbees.  They are GREAT fun when throwing around at night, as they have LEDs embedded in the plastic (in a variety of colors).  Check them out here:

http://www.playulty.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_10

Best of luck!

- Seppo #22


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: adoboy327 on October 02, 2008, 08:02:49 PM
Are official games always played with Ultra-stars? I played with a Frisbee made by Discraft for Syracuse the other day, it was for ultimate and was 175g, but it had a smaller lip than an ultra-star.  It flew really well like any other Discraft I have used, but with the smaller lip it made flicks a little easier. 


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Seppo on October 03, 2008, 11:59:31 AM
Really?  What was it called?  As far as I know (and as far as the Discraft website shows), they only make one disc for Ultimate.

Actually, they do have a J*Star disc for Juniors, but it's only 145g.  Is that what you used?

http://www.discraft.com/ultprod_jstar.html


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: adoboy327 on October 05, 2008, 01:10:59 AM
No it was definitely 175g, had Discraft imprinted on it, and it even flew like an ultra-star, really floaty and smooth.  Felt like the same plastic also, but it was just a little wider and the lip and was noticeably more thin.  It had the Syracuse logo printed on it. 


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 10, 2008, 08:53:23 PM
Ultrastars are endorsed by the UPA, but they aren't the same as discrafts. As mentioned, the lip is different.

On an ultrastar, the lip is alot squarer where it meets the body of the disc. On a discraft, the lip kinda moulds into the body alot smoother.

I'm not sure how that affects other people. But I found throwing an ultrastar weird seeing as i've only ever played with discrafts. Personal preference is the main thing there though.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: a1214 on October 10, 2008, 09:29:02 PM
discraft is a brand, ultra star is their 175g ultimate model. if you are throwing a 175g discraft disc that isnt for golf, you are throwing an ultra star. i know the full colour prints like this: http://www.internetdiscshop.com/product/U-EARTH feel a little different, but all the white 175 discraft ultimate discs are the same...


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 11, 2008, 12:49:47 AM
However there is a disc made by another manufacturer for ultimate  :-\ . Seems I have gotten myself badly, badly mixed up.

That disc has the characteristics I described.... Apart from that, I'm lost  ???.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: gref on October 11, 2008, 02:42:04 AM
There are a lot of 175g ultimate style discs floating around:

http://discraft.com/ultprod.html (Discraft)
http://www.innovadiscs.com/discs/pulsar.html (Innova)
http://www.frisbeedisc.com/sports/ultimate/index.html (Wham-o)
http://www.discgolfstore.com/Ching-175G-Ultimate-Disc-p-14335.html (Ching)
http://www.discpilot.com/product.php?productid=12759&cat=272&page=1 (Some crazy New Zealandish one)

A lot of them are great to throw too, but it's off putting if you practise with one of these, then throw an ultrastar in a game.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: JMc on October 11, 2008, 11:31:05 AM
Add Daredevil to that list as another well known Ultimate disc (Canadian brand).
There's others around as well.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: adoboy327 on October 11, 2008, 03:01:42 PM
So even though all of those are approved UPA discs, only Ultra-stars are used in big tournaments? 


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: confusion on October 14, 2008, 05:50:07 PM
This is something I will never understand... Why Discraft if the "one and only' disc? Personally I prefer Daredevils to Discrafts and Wham-Os. They seem to be made from a plastic of superior quality. They have more rounded edges than oter discs and they feel better in hand. What's more Daredevil offers a wider variety of colors and has a cooler basic print thad Discraft and Wham-O. :)

And still on every tournament in Poland whenever I try to persuade the opposing team to play the game with my brand new Daredevil they start whining and crying and emediately run a search party after a Discraft. Damn sissys! I can play with whatever disc there is if only it's not scratched right through the surface or broken. I'm just trying to show them that Daredevil also fly and that Discraft isn't the one and only ultimate disc!

How do you feel about other disc brands?


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: adoboy327 on October 14, 2008, 07:49:37 PM
I played around with Wham-O discs for several years before even touching a Discraft Ultra-star.  I must say though, I prefer Ultra-stars to Wham-Os hands down.  Ultra-stars float and are much more smooth than any Wham-O I have seen or used.  My only complaint about Ultra-stars are the depth of them, the lip seems bigger than most of the discs I have played with.  This is just a personal preference thing for me though.  I don't think I have played with a Daredevil.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 14, 2008, 10:54:01 PM
Same reason there is an official size and weight of every type of sports ball known to man.

Quote
Why Discraft if the "one and only' disc?

Discraft make a disc that is used by everyone.

I'm not sure if it actually endorsed as the official "Ultimate Frisbee" disc. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can clarify?


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: confusion on October 15, 2008, 06:32:20 AM
I'm not sure if it actually endorsed as the official "Ultimate Frisbee" disc. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can clarify?

To my knowledge the only Ultimate Frisbee Discs are made by the 'Frisbee' trademark owner - Wham-O.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: gref on October 15, 2008, 10:08:47 AM
I think in general Dan, they simply sponsor a lot of major tournaments, meaning that the tournaments get free discs to use as game discs (and perhaps cheaper tournament discs).

Also, every player feels comfortable throwing an ultrastar. They've been smart enough to develop a monopoly, and unless they do something stupid like Wham-o did when they tried to use their monopoly and 'frisbee' trademark to impose changes in ultimate, I find it unlikely that another disc will be used.

@ John
I knew I'd left one out...
I've thrown Daredevils and they are nice discs, but they are still different. And when you're looking for reliability in your throwing, you want to be using the same disc at practise that you use in a game.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Seppo on October 15, 2008, 01:27:10 PM
@ confusion:

Quote
To my knowledge the only Ultimate Frisbee Discs are made by the 'Frisbee' trademark owner - Wham-O.

Actually, the Discraft Ultra-Star 175 is the preferred disc for Ultimate Frisbee games around the world.  True, Wham-O and Daredevil both make Ultimate discs as well, but any official tournament you go to will use Discraft.

I won't touch a Wham-O personally, but the Daredevil discs have come along nicely.  Their first version was very bad, but I handled one of the latest versions @ WUGC in Vancouver this year and it felt pretty much like a Discraft.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 15, 2008, 05:07:50 PM
 ;D Confusion is gona love that ;D . Compared his disc to an ultrastar ;D .

Isn't it because of Wham-o and their trademark "frisbees" that we have to call ultimate, "ultimate"? We can't run around calling it "frisbee" or that we use "frisbees" because they have the trademark and the manufacturers of our playing equipment therefore make discs?

O_o

Always wondered.....


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: confusion on October 15, 2008, 05:34:46 PM
Actually, the Discraft Ultra-Star 175 is the preferred disc for Ultimate Frisbee games around the world.  True, Wham-O and Daredevil both make Ultimate discs as well, but any official tournament you go to will use Discraft.

Isn't it because of Wham-o and their trademark "frisbees" that we have to call ultimate, "ultimate"? We can't run around calling it "frisbee" or that we use "frisbees" because they have the trademark and the manufacturers of our playing equipment therefore make discs?

That's what I ment previously... Ultra-Star is the preferred disc for Ultimate but not Frisbee... ;) You know... Gotta be careful with that word or Wham-O's gonna sue your ass... :P

;D Confusion is gona love that ;D . Compared his disc to an ultrastar ;D .

Hey, don't laugh at me... ;)


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 15, 2008, 05:40:19 PM
;D I wasn't laughing at you, just in general. Just found it funny how you mentioned ultrastars shouldn't be the "be-all-and-end-all" of Ultimate discs.... Then your candidate got compared to one ;D .


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: JMc on October 15, 2008, 05:44:28 PM
As stated, the Discraft Ultra-Star is the current preferred disc for Ultimate around the world. This means everyone learns to throw Ultra-Stars and gets used to practising with them... so they prefer to play with them... which makes people practise with them... so they prefer to play with them...
It's a nice little cycle which is unlikely to be broken any time in the near future. Get your hands on a copy of "Ultimate: The first four decades" for more info on the history of official playing discs... pretty interesting read.

@Gref: The Daredevil is a nice disc to throw - I quite like it, in its own right... but as you've said, if playing with Ultra-Stars, train with Ultra-Stars (as above). Different discs have a different feel and a different flight pattern.

On a side note, I suggest people should try throwing other discs in off-season (not leading up to major comp) to get a better feel and understanding for disc flight... golf discs, other Ultimate discs, DDC, old/beaten up discs... I think it helps learning.

@Tenk283: Yep, basically.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: adoboy327 on October 18, 2008, 01:30:16 PM
I'm surprised Wham-O discs aren't the standard for Ultimate since it seems as if they have been around longer and actually own the "Frisbee" trademark.  Why did everyone decide to go for Ultra-stars? I'm not complaining by any means, I love the Ultra-stars personally.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on October 20, 2008, 03:15:23 AM
Doesn't Wham-o also make frisbees for the beach and dogs?


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Verdeburro on November 02, 2008, 04:14:22 PM
It might have been an innova pulsar. I have had a few. It seemed to me that the lip was a little smaller and it had less concave on it. The plastic is different though.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: JoshuaPark on November 18, 2008, 02:57:38 PM
Discraft also makes discs for dogs and beach stuff. The sky-pro and the sky-styler. They're freestyle sport discs: http://www.disc-ace.com/ultimate_frisbee_sport_discs.html

My guess to why Whamo Frisbees aren't the official ultimate disc used for tournaments is that Discraft stepped in and suggested to programs to use there discs (maybe some kind of contract with the organizations) or maybe Discraft's Ultra-Star is just freakin awesome.  But I'm just guessing, if someone knows give a shout.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Leftyowens on January 23, 2009, 09:13:52 PM
i would have to agree with most here. Discraft has put the effort into sponsoring these events and it has paid off for them in a big way. Another probable cause as to why the Ultra-Star is used more frequently is becuase Discraft strictly makes discs, all of thier research goes into perfecting disc golf and ultimate equipment. Wham-O has thousands of products in many differnent categories, the Frisbee is not at the center of thier product lines. Personally I like throwing the Frisbee as a just for fun disc, (on the street at the beach) but anytime I am practicing or trying to improve skills or playing in a game, I can guarantee I will have an UltraStar with me, with a spare close by.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: JCoWslinger on March 08, 2009, 12:24:57 PM
To pretty much support what others have said, it seems as though Discraft has just spent more time fostering the game of Ultimate's growth, therefore garnering recognition as a good company that one would want to support because they helped the game along.  Despite Wham-O's first release of the original frisbee, they have not put as much time and effort into supporting Ultimate, and also therefore do not get as heavily endorsed as the disc of choice.  That's what I understand it to be.  And on a tangent, as long as the disc is flat on a plain, round on the other plain, and weighs 175g, I'll throw it. I don't care. It's all fun, why bitch about the disc?


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: mikeqr on April 05, 2009, 04:09:57 AM
So um which of the 2 (Discraft, Wham-O) are better for Ultimate?


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: kryptonick on April 05, 2009, 05:27:54 PM
I've used Discraft (ultrastars) Wham-Os and Daredevils and although I can't put why finger on my I think the Ultrastar by discraft is better for playing, a Daredevil Disc doesnt feel too different in my opinion though.

Also since all UPA and WFDF competitions tend to use Ultrastars you'd be better practising with them since there isn't much point in practising throwing with one then using a different disc come game day.

Edited for typos


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Kyle on April 05, 2009, 09:48:56 PM
Ok, I'm going to try and drop a little bit of knowledge.  It won't be completely accurate but should be an improvement over the guessing going on here.  The Ultimate History book has some more information and could fill in some details here.

Wham-O is the patent holder of the Frisbee and created the first disc.  Wham-O discs (from the Master Model through the 82E model) were the official discs of Ultimate from 1969 through 1991.  Wham-O also did a lot to get the sport off the ground in the early years.  As mentioned in the thread earlier, Frisbee is just one of many brands from Wham-O.  In addition Wham-O has been sold several times over the past few decades with the result being that Wham-O did not have a very consistent relationship with the UPA and the standards of the Frisbee being inconsistent.  The 82-E mold was very inconsistent - from what I recall due to the titanium dioxide content being widely variable.  This lead to the disc's flexibility being variable.  In 1991, in response to Wham-O's inconsistency the UPA switched over (in a very close vote) to the Discraft as the official disc of the sport.  In 1994(?), the UPA developed official disc specifications based off the then current Discraft mold.

Interestingly enough, the Discraft mold used then (the Westland, I believe) has degraded enough such that it is no longer within spec.  Discraft, of course has been a huge supporter of the UPA, WFDF and Ultimate around the world.  Discraft now actually has a second mold (the Wixom, I believe although I may have mixed these two up) that is very similar to the Westland but there are slight differences between the two.  The UPA now has a new disc approval process and there are several that are "UPA approved" however only Discraft's two molds are "Championship Approved."  I think CUPA has used Daredevil in some of their CUPA Nationals. 

It's not surprising but people like consistency.  As a thrower, I'm sure I could get used to the flight characteristics of any mold, but Discraft will reign supreme unless another company can create a huge incentive to switch over.

Wham-O, for their part, had been trying to reverse engineer the Discraft mold.  But getting the mold right is only part of it.  You also have to get the right plastic and processes (heating, cooling, time in the mold etc.).  (Please keep in mind that I'm no plastics engineer so please excuse any mistakes here) 

Wham-O for a time while I was at the UPA also was investing a huge amount in youth Ultimate.  They supported an incredibly productive PE Outreach program that helped the UPA spread the sport to thousands of PE teachers throughout the US and Canada.  Through that program, funded by Wham-O, the UPA distributed 8 discs, 1 PE curriculum, a rule book and a DVD to over 3,000 PE teachers and is having a direct impact on the growth of the sport.  They also partnered with the UPA to develop it's instructional DVD and then distributed that DVD with Wham-O Ultimate discs sold in stores across the US.

I know one of the first things were taught when we start playing Ultimate is that Wham-O is bad and evil and tried to change the sport and won't let us use the word Frisbee.  Wham-O's not bad - they are just inconsistent in their support for the sport and their ability to produce good discs.  Who knows?  This may change someday.  Also, they have no problem with "Ultimate Frisbee" - I'm sure they'd love to get their brand out there more at some level. 

That said, Jim and Pad and the crew at Discraft are great and they've been there for 18 years now making great discs for the sport and supporting Championships around the world and the UPA's coaching clinic among other things. 

So long story short, if you are going to buy a disc for Ultimate, buy an Ultrastar.  If you want to buy a disc for Freestyle I believe the Discraft Sky Styler is the disc of choice.   


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: RayJ on April 06, 2009, 11:03:41 AM
I have noticed that a Wham-O seems to have a thicker edge than an Ultrastar, once I made the switch to Ultrastar my flicks got a lot more consistent, and my fingers didn't hurt as much afterward.

So Ultrastar it up.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on April 06, 2009, 06:16:29 PM
I have noticed that a Wham-O seems to have a thicker edge

And a thinner middle.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: mikeqr on April 06, 2009, 10:07:22 PM
How much does Discraft Ultra-Star cost? gonna buy one and replace my Wham-O :)


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on April 07, 2009, 12:37:14 AM
www.discraft.com

Good luck with that. Exchange rate is a killer right now.

Better off buying one from your local club.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: frisWEE on April 07, 2009, 06:00:42 AM
well at least since they are still 15 bucks


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: s0urce on April 07, 2009, 12:28:09 PM
Daredevil's are pretty standard for a lot of people to learn with in Ottawa, Canada's (and the world's)largest league.  I'd say it's pretty close to 50/50 usage between daredevil's and discraft in league games.

I can't even tell the difference between the two anymore.  Occaissionally you'll see an old daredevil that's a little softer.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on April 16, 2009, 04:56:13 AM
Anyone else found that discs tend to go stiff after a while then go soft?

Some of our old discs are really stiff and great to throw because they don't flex too much. (Bad part is the rim is normally messed up and the disc is worn changing the aerodynamics)

But then some of the older discs have gone really soft and flex a great deal when you hang onto them.


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: jonjon on April 18, 2009, 06:44:46 AM
Hi, I'm new to ultimate and am looking to purchase a disc for recreational play. However would like a disc that meets the standards of competitive play - looking around the forums, Discraft's Ultra Star seems to pop up a lot!

Saw http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frisbee-50th-Anniversary-Gift-Pack/dp/B00180GWB2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=toys&qid=1240050197&sr=8-7 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Frisbee-50th-Anniversary-Gift-Pack/dp/B00180GWB2/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=toys&qid=1240050197&sr=8-7) on Amazon - is it worth my while? 


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: SergioPL on April 19, 2009, 01:49:11 PM
the discs in this pack are Wham-o's ...
i don't like them very much ... they have hard rim...


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: Tenk283 on April 21, 2009, 07:55:37 PM
I think sergio is right there... They do look like wham-o's. Considering that they are in the "toy" section and they are called "frisbees", i wouldn't be surprised if they were the flimsy ones sold at $2 stores...

Better off going to your local club and seeing if they have any available to buy. As to what you should buy, thats up to your preference. Personally I can't handle a wham-o disc, but there are tons who can't throw with anything else. Go find what you like. Besides, discs are relatively cheap. A soccer ball costs around $25 here... I can get a disc for $15 ;D


Title: Re: Frisbees Selection
Post by: SergioPL on April 22, 2009, 05:18:18 AM
i'm 100% sure those discs are wham-o's :)

2 days ago i was playing with a flash light disc ... it's flying really fantastic, and it's made of
soft plastic it's just stick to your hand ... catching a blade isn't a problem :)


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