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Author Topic: UNI Games Tiering debate  (Read 61329 times)
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littletom
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« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2007, 09:33:22 PM »

I am translating the "unseeded" to mean "not having sufficient standards to properly determine seed"

From a purists point of view, it will effectively be an unseeded tournament.

-Tom
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Chris
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« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2007, 01:44:15 AM »

Quote
There's no need for Tiering in an unseeded 5 day tournament.  It would
be a minor disaster and this should be stopped in its tracks.  I can't
believe it's gotten this far.
He might also referring to the fact that there is no qualifications/regionals this year either.

Despite pottsy's argument of making the tournament a free for all and having no divisions, I'd still prefer my idea of two initial divisions that still cater for bottom pool teams making quarter finals. It just has so much going for it - less games, better quality games for top and bottom division, not to mention creating minor achievements for lower teams to achieve (ie making the top 10 for next year or being the best team from the bottom division) and the chance for a mid-week break, plus I think it is pretty fair system.

The only major drawbacks to it is those going into the quarter finals seeded 7th and 8th will have played an extra two games the previous day, where the top 6 teams would have had a break, and the fact that the highest seed a bottom division team can take into the quarter finals is 7th or 8th, which will mean they are playing the 1st and 2nd seeds which might mean even if they were deserving of a higher seed they may be knocked out of the top four purely because they couldn't beat the top two seeds, but may well have had a chance at playing 3rd or 4th. The same drawback can be applied to the 1st and 2nd seeds if they have to play a much harder quarter final match than if they had played 3rd - 6th seeded teams, which may result in them being knocked out of the top four when they no doubt had a genuine chance at a medal.

Though even with this considered I still think the system is pretty dam fair - and I'd argue an efficient and effective way of running Uni Games - or at least the best option proposed thus far.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2007, 01:58:46 AM by Chris » Logged

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simmo
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« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2007, 01:54:37 AM »

Pools, carryover, quarters/semis/playoffs.

Does not need to be more complicated than that.
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Chris
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« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2007, 02:39:24 AM »

Pools, carryover, quarters/semis/playoffs.

Does not need to be more complicated than that.
Way to simplify it Simmo! But I agree for the most part the standard system works, and works well, for the most part.

The downsides to this system though, as is traditional with AUGs there can be quite big variances in the team's ability each year (QUT 2006: Seeded 5th finished 17th) leading to distinctly tougher/weaker pools than others. So the size of the pools could potentially be an issue. I'd argue that pools would be best off being 5-6 teams, to reduce the chances of biased pools. Though this would most likely mean more pool matches which isn't ideal either.

The other major downside I see to this system is whilst it "may" be more accurate in obtaining seedings for quarter finals than the split divisions example I gave, it comes at the expense of requiring teams to play a few more games than would be necessary in the split divisions system. Just with the pool matches and carryover games alone teams could be playing 7-8 games if not more (assuming that original pool sizes are increased to reduce pool bias as a result of lack of good indicator of team's present quality considering there are no regional qualifications).

Now a lot of people may disagree with me, but I'm all for playing less games at AUGs, and the system of two divisions makes this possible, but obviously its a system based on some big assumptions - the main one being that previous results of are reflective of current year's potential, but assuming that you make the top pool big enough (10 teams) and only allow a smallish percentage of those top seeded teams to move directly to the quarter finals (60%) then you can argue that those teams would have been "very likely" to have made the quarters in a traditional system without making them having to play 7-8+ games to qualify, which to me makes sense.
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simmo
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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2007, 03:45:19 AM »

My money is on less than 24 teams being there on the Monday, thus making this entire debate redundant. Every year there is talk that we will break the 20-team barrier. Every year it doesn't happen. No qualification won't matter - teams don't come because they can't afford it.

Teams that will definately be there (12):
Mac, Newie, UNSW, ANU, USyd, UQ, QUT, UMelb, Monash, B-Town, Adelaide, Flinders

Teams that are a probably (more than 50% likely) (7):
CSU, UTS, Latrobe, UWA, Murdoch, UTas, Griffith

Teams that are a sort-of-maybe (less than 50% likely) (3):
UniSA, Deakin, RMIT

Teams that I wouldn't know (7):
UCan, JCU, Bond, Wollongong, UWS, ACU, SCU

29 possible teams in total (not thinking about B teams here), with 10 of them very doubtful. There won't be 24 teams.
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Chris
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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2007, 04:21:34 AM »

Well a UQ 2 team is very likely - like I think with the interest that we have I'd find it hard to believe that we won't have a UQ 2 team.

Also I have heard that Griffith will actually have two teams there this year as well - One form Griffith Gold Coast and one from Griffith Brisbane... and having chatted with both the captains of the respective unis they both seem confident they will be there which makes sense considering the tournament is local.

I'm not saying there will be more than 24 teams, but I'd like to think there will definitely be 20 for the first time...
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thebozzman
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« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2007, 05:18:44 AM »

Simmo...
We've already booked the bus for the trip up and we are hoping to assist CSU Dubbo with a team aswell!

So 2 CSU teams Smiley
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mike
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« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2007, 05:47:10 AM »

i talked to deakin (burwood) on thurs night.
they wont be making the trip up to AUG - like 99.9% sure they wont come up.

mike
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Drag
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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2007, 06:51:39 AM »

I would say RMIT is a 40% yes - 40% maybe - 20%no
not to sure

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simmo
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« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2007, 09:12:54 AM »

Simmo...
We've already booked the bus for the trip up and we are hoping to assist CSU Dubbo with a team aswell!

So 2 CSU teams Smiley
Falcons & Ligers!


BOOYAH!!
I stand corrected, said the man in the orthopedic shoes.
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moroney
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« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2007, 10:34:05 PM »

Not to doubt the confidence of captains, but it wouldn't suprise me if the teams that have stated being less than 80% sure don't end up coming. With each day uni games comes closer, more fees and prices come up and makes it easier for people that aren't ulti nerds (Chris) to say nah, idunwanna.

Anyway is there any way we can change this apparent decision AUS has made? As much as it pains me to say it, I think Pissy is spot on with his tournament concept.
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Chris
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« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2007, 12:59:33 AM »

Yeah last minute drop outs are always an issue, but like the old saying goes - Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Captains just need to get commitments from people early, like potentially asking for small installments of money well in advanced. like $50 3 months out, $100 2 months out, $100 a month out - combine this with a weekly/fortnightly training session and you will have a strong committed team, that is aware well in advance that they are going to AUGs.

UQ in 2005 slapped a team together last minute. In 2006 we started training/selections probably 6-8 weeks in advance. 2007 - we have been plugging AUGs since March, and have been setting up development teams in other leagues for the sake of preparing people for representing UQ on one of the two UQ teams going down to Uni Games.

Or you could go the chump QUT route - bank on the fact that Mike Nield will come, he doesn't come, then half the team bails because they know the team won't do well minus mike and they don't want to spend $750 getting their asses handed to them...
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Jangles
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« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2007, 01:07:33 AM »

Haha mike was never a certainty last year. and sass well couldnt play and beth choose not to play long before adelaide. there went our 3 best players in one hit and of course money really hurt us but at least we got a team together.  Cheesy

I personally dont see as much interest as is being predicted but it will be a future issue we will have to deal with and i hope by then we can solve it in a fair and effective manner. As for chris you have way too much time on your hands arent you suppose to be doing study for that one subject?
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Ud4lyF
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« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2007, 10:33:06 PM »

Yeah last minute drop outs are always an issue, but like the old saying goes - Prior Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.



who actually says that? a perfect produce of proficent aliteration however.

as for this whole argument.
the 20 team mark has been reached on the AFDA website.
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Jangles
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« Reply #59 on: July 08, 2007, 08:01:55 PM »

oh yeh this tournie will be a lot of fun. kinda think it is stupid that with 21 teams which will be 22 with griffith GC that leave the top 6 and then the bottom 16 does anyone see the flaw in the teiring idea there??? I mean the idea was to split number of teams but we have as many already in the second division as the whole comp in previous years.  Angry
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