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Author Topic: AUG: Divisions, draw and seeding talk  (Read 32032 times)
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Tiger
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« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2009, 08:12:22 PM »

Hang the fuck on - doesn't AUG just rotate between Melbourne and the Gold Coast?
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Chris L
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« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2009, 09:14:42 PM »

AUGs is on the gold coast every second year, but I thought it still moved around the country for the other years.
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moroney
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« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2009, 09:25:46 PM »

Chris is right, Tiger's a n00b.
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suj
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« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2009, 11:57:39 PM »

I thought tiger was being sarcastic in his tigery way.
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nickp
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« Reply #79 on: August 28, 2009, 03:46:08 AM »

I agree. Fair enough AUS doesn't want to give combined/international teams a shot at a medal (what *are* their official reasons, Simmo?) but to set it in stone a month before the tournament - ie at the point of no return - is a bit of a dick move.
I totally agree that it's not ideal but I believe AUS informed the teams from the outset that they would be in Division 2. Nick can you let me know if this wasn't the case.

Here's the AUS Divisional Sport Guideline
https://secure.unigames.com.au/_uploads/res/1_1387.pdf

Point 1.5...
Quote
The competition size of division 1 will be advised one week after the close of registrations, once the number of teams in the combined competition are confirmed.

The first I heard of 2 divisions was on here. I inquired with the person I have been in contact with at AUS and have received no reply. Except to ask for more forms filled out and more money.

Hmmm if you note Point 1.2
Quote
AUS will have the power to go outside these parameters if it is in the best interests of maintaining the integrity of the Competition.
And Point 3.1
Quote
Teams that have automatically qualified for division 1 will be displayed at www.unigames.com.au. Only the minimum number of teams (six) for division 1 will be displayed. Additional places will depend on the competition size which will be confirmed 1 week after the close of registrations.

And then read the guidelines which are posted on the site: http://www.unisport.com.au/_uploads/res/1_2718.pdf   
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Ultimate Frisbee - Will be competed as a single division competition.

Theres a pretty good argument for one division along the lines of any major Ultimate tournament.
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BJ
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« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2009, 07:03:30 AM »

Wow great digging there! Im all for a higher level of competition, but honestly that isn't what the majority of Aussie's who play AUG's are there for. Nor does the strength across the nation allow a division split at university level, (let alone club level.) If anyone wanted an exclusively high level mixed tournament, they'd be going to Hobart a couple weeks later, (for substantially less). If the split is only to please AUS then there is clearly not enough transparent planning in regard to the process to validate it for this year. AUS doesn't have the involvement, planning or clarity (regarding rules) set in place to build to a division split, let alone snap it into place with-in a month.

I do understand that AU could not launch the complaint since our UniSA assisted participation is at the whim of AUS, but it really is unfair on teams like CSU and NZ, they'll be forking out and training for maybe one game that will actually matter. As for AU, even if we had to sit out semis or quarters, I would personally relish the chance to prove myself and the training that we are doing at a worthy level, instead of against a team of 7 to 9 newbies.
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DaveR
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« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2009, 10:56:58 AM »

come on Simmo, let NZ play div 1....that guy has just made a prefectly good set of arguments, no reasonable decision making panel could argue with the inherent problems with which the process has been carried out and the general lack of communication....it would have to be very obstinant and highly unfair.

Putting lawyer cap on (degree has gotta be worth something) with the representations that have been made, the policies AUS has espoused and the dicotomy between that and reality, and the lack of contrary information on anything other than an informal discussion board for people who like frisbee enough, which hardly constitutes reasonable notice by any standards, is seriously problematic and not only sucks for the teams but actually calls into question the legitimacy and proffessionalism of the event, something i imagine AUS is trying to promote. At least its worth making the argument for NZ, it would certainy enhance the "integirty of the competition" if legitimate teams were to play in div 1, and it would do alot to encourage future teams (or the converse, the situation this year would discourage future teams from bothering if they are going to be treated so arbitrarily).

Also, if there is any team that should be deemed worthy of an exception then  a NZ team should have it, due to the patently obvious logistic difficulties with it competing every year. Its alot tougher for them to make it than UQ. Its pretty fucked if what this guy says is true and there was no communication on registration...imagine if it hadnt been aired here and rocking up expecting a relativly high quality international tournament and getting placed in the chump division. Just plain unfair. And it also makes AUS look really stupid, which is maybe worth pointing out to them.

I know you got a thankless job (so thanks mate, you do a good job) but this situation is pretty ridiculous. AU kinda doesnt have a leg to stand on due to its duel uni thing (sorry) and CSU chose their course, but there doesnt seem a justifiable reason for treating a an international team  as such (especially since they came top 8(?) in 07 when they (if its the same uni) last competed).

Just my thought. Best of luck to you nickp.
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simmo
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« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2009, 11:22:36 AM »

come on Simmo, let NZ play div 1....that guy has just made a prefectly good set of arguments, no reasonable decision making panel could argue with the inherent problems with which the process has been carried out and the general lack of communication....it would have to be very obstinant and highly unfair.
I don't disagree with him. Not for a second. The decision wasn't up to me.

Nick, can you please email me a list of your players and the highest level of ultimate they have played in the last 12-18 months (Worlds, NZ Nats, etc).

I don't want to come off as shifting the blame here, but NZ's entry into the competition went directly through AUS and not through me, so I don't know who was told what. I know that AU/USA were told they would be in Div2 if there was one, so I (naively) assumed NZ would be told the same thing. Obviously I was wrong.

If it's any consolation (it's not, but hear me out), the Div2 draw will separate into a top 6 and bottom 5 on Tuesday. I fully believe that the fight for medals between NZ, AU/USA, CSU, QUT, UNSW and whoever the 6th team is (Vic probably) will actually be a pretty tight comp.
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nickp
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« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2009, 11:28:39 PM »

Nick, can you please email me a list of your players and the highest level of ultimate they have played in the last 12-18 months (Worlds, NZ Nats, etc).
Done. Basics: 3 worlds players, another 6 who played in the semis at our Nationals in April, 5 more who won our Uni Games and a couple of Newbies. Should do ok.

If it's any consolation (it's not, but hear me out), the Div2 draw will separate into a top 6 and bottom 5 on Tuesday. I fully believe that the fight for medals between NZ, AU/USA, CSU, QUT, UNSW and whoever the 6th team is (Vic probably) will actually be a pretty tight comp.
Choice, well that sounds more fun.
We do have one positive in that we'll know noone over there so every game will be different. Gets boring playing the same teams/players all the time.
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Twig
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« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2009, 05:48:51 AM »

I personally dont think everyone should be getting so worked up over the divisions.  I feel for NZ i would hate to not know that the tourny you were coming over for isnt exactly what was sold to you. 

What i think is the most annoying this year in terms of AUS communication is the increase in player roster size.  I am all for the idea but it is really shit that i knew three weeks before our UTM that there was going to be an increase in the player roster size. Also as we only found out mid August (a month after we had completed selections) it makes it almost impossible to get more players to come as i cant expect them to pay $600 one way to fly to the Gold Coast, just because AUS cant get there shit together.  Thus we are going to AUG's 1 maybe 2 players down on other Div 1 teams which is going to put us at a disadvantage. 

Btw pissy this is in no way a dig at you because i know that rule changes are only submitted in August and i agree that we need 18 players but AUS doesnt think about the teams that have to travel across the country to compete (and does so year in and year out without much complaining).

Finally to all those teams that complain about how much they have to pay to play AUG have a think about us who before even being able to pay for player registration are up for and average of $700 in flights
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DaveR
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« Reply #85 on: August 30, 2009, 08:29:04 AM »

so whats deal with G&G selections with 2 divisions? i know you have given an answer to this before but i forgoet.

Also, its less than a month, anyone wanna start posting actual predicitions or G&G teams. I did a provisional run down on G&G contenders...it was long.
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simmo
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« Reply #86 on: August 30, 2009, 09:22:41 AM »

One G&G team is picked. Both divisions eligible.
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Eels 88
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« Reply #87 on: August 30, 2009, 10:12:48 AM »

Also, its less than a month, anyone wanna start posting actual predicitions or G&G teams. I did a provisional run down on G&G contenders...it was long.

I heard a rumour that it was harder to make the Monash starting line-up this year than it would be to get G+G?

Wanna shed any light on that Mr Moroney?  Tongue

Peter Adam from UWA is a GG shoe in. Kids got some mad skill.
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moroney
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« Reply #88 on: August 30, 2009, 09:41:11 PM »

Quote
I heard a rumour that it was harder to make the Monash starting line-up this year than it would be to get G+G?

Wanna shed any light on that Mr Moroney?

I never said that. Not once. Unless I was hammered. I do believe I said that it would be harder to make the AUG team than it would to be to win AUG, but there's nothing controversial about that surely? I'm more than happy to offer you the same wager I offered Mr. Lavis...
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simmo
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« Reply #89 on: August 30, 2009, 10:23:05 PM »

If anyone still gives a shit, I've posted a write-up on what went on with the decisions behind the two divisions and seeding for AUG on my blog.

http://ballaratultimate.blogspot.com
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