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Author Topic: Stat's and benchmarks for Elite level Ultimate players?  (Read 17580 times)
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chargeorge
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« on: November 19, 2009, 12:16:17 PM »

A little earlier this year I decided that I really missed competitive ultimate, and I decided that I was going to train hard, and attempt to break from being "good" player to being competitive with elite players.  I'm not talking about going strait from sectionals level of play to Chain here, but I basically want to step up my game, with a goal of matching up against elite level players. 

Over the last 6 months I've known that i'd be missing the 2009 series, so I've been focusing on 2010, My main focuses have been on my weight (I started 2009 at about 220, I'm now down to 190, which is the lightest I've been since I started playing ulti) and improving my strength (This has been less successful, as one can only go so far losing weight while building strength, after I got out of "Pitiful" territory I've plateaued at "Meager"). 

But now that it's late fall, and tryouts in the NE are probably about 5-6 months away, it's time to start getting serious and start focusing in on specific athleticism.  To that end, I need some bench marks.  I mean, I can train hard as shit, but if come spring I've been training the wrong things, it'll be difficult to recover.  I want to use benchmarks to follow my performance growth, identify areas that aren't progressing, and keep evolving my training regimen.  I'm focussing on Atheletism for this part of the thought process, as I don't have a training partner yet.

I know a few elite players post here, and I think a few coaches do too.  What kind of stasticis do you use when measuring player performance, especially in regards to athleticism.  My thoughts were to measure 3 main things, top speed, acceleration, and one foot jump height, Speed using the 100 meter dash, acceleration using the 30meter sprint, and jump height by, umm... Jump height.  If there exists I'd like to put targets for myself based on elite players.  Does anyone have those kind of numbers?  Or if elite teams use other fitness/atheleticism measurements, I'd love to hear them and target those.
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Char
rrudnic
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« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 09:30:56 PM »

I would say that since every player is different its hard for you to compare, there is always someone who will be faster or jump higher. I'm sure Chain isn't comparing Dylan to Tuba to whoever, each player probably has their own goals they set based on where they start or where they are this yr vs where they want to be next yr. I would say you should determine your current stat in these different categories/exercises then set goals based on that, say 1" to your vertical for each month, 1/10 second off your 100m each month, that sort of thing.

On a related note I will be starting ridiculous training myself starting Jan 1. for much the same reason as you. I want to really move my game to another level and at this point I believe the issue is fitness more then technique. I have a 5 day a week regimen planned if you want to trade workouts or run the same things as a comparison send me a private message.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 09:34:50 PM by rrudnic » Logged
Kyle
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 11:01:07 AM »

I don't have specific benchmarks for elite players but in my experience being involved in organizing structured team try-outs at multiple levels (elite open, Elite HS Girls, US Junior Boys) the most important measures for Ultimate related athleticism:

- Explosiveness: 3 x Double leg bound, measure distance
- Agility: 20 yard shuttle (measure twice starting in each direction)
- Acceleration: 40 yard sprint
- Top Speed: 40 yard flying start sprint

I'd measure your current times/distances in these and then work to improve them by as much as possible.

-Kyle

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chargeorge
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2009, 09:52:49 AM »

That actually really helps, thanks Kyle! 

rrudnic, I'll send you a PM, I haven't finished my training program yet, but I think I've got a pretty good idea of where I'm going with it.  I've been using Mackey's Blog (http://mmackey.blogspot.com/) and ultimate training for the big parts, and some stuff from injury timeout too.

Have you ever used DailyBurn?  It's an online piece of fitness software that I'm going to use to track the workouts, I'm going to add some ultimate focusses workouts to their DB if you are interested in using them. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 10:55:14 AM by chargeorge » Logged

Char
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« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2009, 10:08:00 AM »

It's an interesting question you pose chargeorge:  Which benchmarks can be measured to know that one is improving in the sport of Ultimate Frisbee?  I don't really have any answers myself, but I can say that an off-season workout program really does help a lot.

Last fall and winter before the 2009 club season myself and many of my Prairie Fire teammates engaged in a CrossFit program to improve our fitness levels.  I can't tell you how much it helped me personally.  We had one of our teammates who was really fond of CrossFit post a workout-of-the-week on our Prairie Fire Facebook group.  Along with our own personal routines, we would incorporate this workout sometime during the week.  As the weeks went by you could really feel and see a difference in your explosiveness, core strength, agility, etc.

While the above doesn't have anything specifically to do with benchmarks, I thought I would pass on the info in case you were interested.

Check out the official CrossFit website here:

http://www.crossfit.com

Cheers!

- Seppo #22
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chargeorge
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2009, 10:50:49 AM »

Thanks seppo!

 I'm looking to incorporate some of those crossfit excercises and concepts into my training.  A crossfit gym is opening near me when I get back to the US, and will have some free classes to generate some interest.  I'm going to try it out and see how it works into an ultimate training package for me.  
« Last Edit: November 23, 2009, 10:53:35 AM by chargeorge » Logged

Char
rrudnic
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« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2009, 01:31:53 PM »

I read Mackey's blog regularly, one of the best ultimate blog's out there in my opinion. Have not heard of daily burn but I would love something to help track my workouts. It was easier when I was doing workouts for other sports cause you were just counting reps.
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Ben-I
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2009, 03:38:31 PM »

I've wanted to do something like this as well. Rrudnic, you'll likely be getting a PM from me to see what you've been doing. What I tried to do over the summer was do the Vertical Jump Bible, but it wasn't helping out my cross country season any, so I stopped after a while. What I'm looking at doing now that its over is starting the VJB program up again to work on my vert, and just hitting the gym hard to get strong. I don't need to lose weight, I just need to get in better shape. The Ultimate-centric parts of my regimen are going to be the hardest part for me to figure out.
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rrudnic
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2009, 09:50:38 AM »

I never had issues with the physical strength stuff, I have been a pretty big gym rat since about 15 and it helped with a lot of the sports I played in HS. Now I just do a full body workout a few times a week to maintain. Feel free to contact me though I'd love to see what others are doing never know when you can add or incorporate to what you do to make your workouts more diverse and effective. 
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Pepper
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 07:25:32 AM »

The only thing you should watch with a 5 day a week training schedule is that you don't do the same muscle group 2 days in a row. So do upper body monday, then don't do it on tuesday. Go lower body instead.

This has to do with the ideal time between workouts which is about 1 day in between. This will get you the best performance increase due to a phenomenon called 'supercompensation' (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercompensation).

So train the same thing on monday, wednesday and friday and another group of exercises can be done on tuesday, thursday and saturday. Then take sunday off to recover fully.
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Ben-I
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 01:27:59 PM »

I've never actually done Upper Body and Lower Body workouts per se. Depending on my schedule at the time, I was usually on a 3 to 5 day a week program with as many different workouts. I think the Upper/Lower Body workouts may work out better for me now. Usually I would have to do my lower body workouts either at a gym or at somebody else's house, since I didn't have the weight I needed at my place, but now I'm at a point where I need more for my upper body as well, so I'll just get enough to do it all at my place. Man it's been a while since I've squatted  Tongue

But yeah, rrudnic, I would love to hear what your training routine looks like!
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Enigman5
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 10:18:10 AM »

Chargeorge,

I really recommend also incorporating endurance and stamina into your benchmarks. Especially if you plan on trying out to be a cutter. I ran track and cross country for five years and still run a LOT since then. I still train like I did for the 800m race. When I go to the track I run a lot of sprints but I really like doing ladder workouts. For example 4x200m (with rest depending on where you are in training, so higher level training=less rest), 3x400m, 2x800m, 1x1600m. I've always been fast but never to the point where people are afraid to guard me but I can tell you I've never played anyone who likes guarding me when I don't handle because I never stop running.

So adding a 400m or 800m to your benchmarks would be a great idea.

Enigman5
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rrudnic
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 09:10:17 AM »

Have you ever used DailyBurn?  It's an online piece of fitness software that I'm going to use to track the workouts, I'm going to add some ultimate focusses workouts to their DB if you are interested in using them. 

Checked out DailyBurn and it is a great site, this is the second week I'm using it and its a great tool, helps me think about what I eat a lot more, since I'm not in hard training mode right now I can't speak to much for the training part yet.
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chargeorge
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« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2009, 09:52:05 AM »

Yea, the dietary tools are great, and setting up a weightlifting program works well, but to put in a conditioning program doesn't seem to work well.

I'm going to go try out crossfit this weekend, I'll see how that goes. I'm pretty flabby after 2 weeks of vacation.
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chargeorge
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 12:48:43 PM »

Progress update.

after some light training, i started a winter league in central NJ last night.  The league varies from nationals caliber players (One guy on our team was wearing an Ironside jersey, and he was pretty representative of player calibur).  Playing with/against these guys gave me a pretty clear idea of where I need to get to work.

1. Explosiveness, and quick steps.  When cutting in the endzone one those national calibur players (he may have even been a masters player) were able to cover me on the breakside and still catch up with me to cover me. 

2. Disc reads, agression on the floater and jump height.  I managed to get a lucky huck by playing the conservative angle on a better player than me and catching it off his tip, but other than that, I got beat deep on offense. 

3. overall fitness and durability.  My foot hurt by the end of the third point, and my back was killing me by halftime.  I need to work foot strength, and core strength and GPP so I can last through both the long points, and the whole game.  I'm thinking that this is a place where Crossfit will work really well to help.

4. The flow of the game at elite levels.  Even though this is mostly a training league for these higher level players, there's a lot that they assume that I normally discuss before a point.  The handlers also look for different cuts than I'm used to, and I need to be looking more to go deep and come in.  I also need to play better when poached, as I failed to punish the guy who was poaching me way deep.  Any suggestions for when my guy is poaching deep in your lane?  Mostly I was trying to cut in or to the breakside, but I wasn't grabbing the attention of the handlers.

On the positive side, even though I'm not in great shape, losing thirty pounds (218 at this point last year, 188 now) is making a pretty major difference already.  I think if I wanted to compete on a national level I'd need to lose 10 more, but I think I'm good here for now.  Throws felt good, but they always feel good indoors, and I did make a few nice plays.  My basic defensive strategy of "Pick a guy and shut them down, without any fancy poaches" worked well for the most part. 

My plan to improve goes like this,

1. Use crossfit to improve GPP and overall fitness, right now that's only 2-3 times a week, because the crossfit gym I'm working with is just starting out.
2. Supplement Crossfit's workouts with some ultimate specific work like sprints and agility work.
3. a few longer sessions to prepare for long games. 

I've got a lot of work to do, but playing with these guys and gals gives me a solid goal to shoot for so I can be ready for tryouts in May.  the 1 hour commute each way for an hour of playtime sucks though, Lol.
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Char
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