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Author Topic: Internationals on National Teams  (Read 8825 times)
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ulty_arnie
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« on: August 02, 2007, 08:23:49 PM »

I have been talking to people about the moral grounds of internationals playing on National Teams.  The idea of Worlds in Vancouver is to send the best National Team you can to represent your country.  Now, how do you define the players on a national team?  Do you have to be a citizen or have a passport from said country to be qualified?  Or, is it how long you have actually resided in said country or how much you put into the community? 

Another way I thought about it was what if some top American/Canadian/Australian players move to the Ivory Coast and introduce ultimate and get a National Team together for '08 Worlds.  Would this be fair, as some of the team composition is really just people who weren't good enough to make their own country's team, however, they are developing the country residents and introducing the sport as to allow them to actually take real national teams in the future, and a team in the present. 

It is rather philisophical, but interesting. 
Who would you pick first to be on a National Team, a citizen who has been overseas the past 3-4 years and comes back in time for try outs and such, or a international who has been in the country the past 3-4 years and has been developing the sport and helping it grow, but isn't necessarily a citizen, holds a passport, etc (both are of equal  skill level)?

At what point does an international become worthy of being on a National Team?  Is there ever a point, should there be a point?  They are National Teams, so should a non-citizen ever be given the chance to play with another country?  Or, is it the journey that matters most, those fellow players who go through the whole process by your side putting in every step of the way, nullifying the fact they are unforunate enough not to have been born in country A instead of their own?

What are people's thoughts? 
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simmo
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« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2007, 11:33:52 PM »

I think it's in the eligibility rules somewhere, that if you're not a citizen of that country, you can play for them if you have lived there for three consecutive years or something. If you're going through the same selection process as everyone else, then I don't think there's a problem with it.

The scenario you mentioned (about Ivory Coast) wouldn't happen because there's a limit on how many international players can be used.
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ulty_arnie
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« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2007, 11:56:46 PM »

I know there are rules on it, but what are people's personal thoughts more so.  You can have 2 non-citizens play as long as they ahve lived their for 3 years, and something about the number of residents that can play I believe.  I was more curious of what people think on a more personal scale. 

What are your personal thoughts on the issue? 
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Frank
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2007, 02:56:53 AM »

Not really on topic, but I have often thought about a similar issue. In sports like soccer, there are certain regulations about eligibility for players, similar to Ultimate I guess (but probably stricter). But there seems to be no regulations on coaches. You can get whoever you want to coach your national team, so you end up with these guns for hire like Guus Hiddink, wandering the globe. Why is this so? Why aren't there eligibility restrictions on coaches, like there are for players?

Anyway I digress.

It seems that as far as Ultimate goes, eligibility rules are fairly lax, and the powers that be seem pretty eager to look the other way if needed - and that's fine by me. The only criteria I would put on a player is that they attend the training camps/selections, and fulfilled the official criteria, passport etc. I'd have no problem with some stud coming in from overseas and taking a spot, provided they did that.

But I think nationalism is overrated anyway...
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simmo
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2007, 05:26:49 AM »

Yeah, what Frank said. If they go through the same process that everyone else goes through then it's all good. As long as the foreigner has been there through the whole development process then why shouldn't they be able to play for that country?

Ultimate isn't quite popular enough to enforce nationality rules. The AFL International Cup has similar eligibility rules...most teams are Aussie ex-pats, but you have to have a certain number of locals on the team.
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rjhberg
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2007, 05:53:34 AM »

I think that if someone had come to Australia to play with the Dingos because they didn't think that they would make thier own team - that would annoy me.

I guess the same might apply too to overseas Aussies who are now playing OS and are eligble to play OS.

If they didn't feel they could make their OS team so came back to play with the Dingos that would be annoying to.

As for annoying Haiwaiin kids coming over here and starting to play here and then playing for a uni here and then thinking they can just come and play for the dingoes - I think that is great  Cheesy
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rodarnold
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2007, 08:28:14 PM »

NEW MEMBER HERE....

I am travelling from Canada to Australia. Thinking about staying in Gold Coast for a while. Hopefully find a job, and more importantly some competitive Ultimate! I would love to join a touring team once I arrive. I am arriving on September 15th or so... Does anyone have any contacts or advice on where I should go when I get to Australia, and who I can talk toy about getting on a touring mixed or mens team. This Beach Ultimate sounds fun too. I am a custom to the grass game and have coaching and university aswell as club experience.

Feel free to contact me with any advice

[email protected]
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Jangles
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2007, 08:31:52 PM »

Well Brett

Lets see I think most young boys have some sort of dream of representing his country in some sport. As for me if i didnt get picked because someone better came from the states and took my spot i wouldnt mind. (considering that they have to be here for 3 years). The only guff that i would have is if they didnt have the aussie mate-ship thing down. As for people coming back to Aus to play i thought if i was in the same spot i would come back to play for Aus over any other country i was living in.

Swillmaster for dingos!!!! Jangles says yes (only if he stops throwing swill!!!)
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ulty_arnie
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2007, 04:08:18 AM »

LOL, Swillmaster will never stop throwing his swill, MUHAHAahahahahhahaha!!!

I feel this topic became a little too personalised.  I was not trying to see what people thought of me trying out were, but more so what are people's thoughts in general about National Teams.  But, thanks for all the endorsement, hehehe. 
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Chris
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2007, 03:18:05 AM »

I think that if someone had come to Australia to play with the Dingos because they didn't think that they would make thier own team - that would annoy me.

I guess the same might apply too to overseas Aussies who are now playing OS and are eligble to play OS.

If they didn't feel they could make their OS team so came back to play with the Dingos that would be annoying to.
I feel along similar lines as Rueben. Except for the current OS Aussie coming back to Australia to play. Personally if you are happy to call Australia "home" or even a "home away from home" then I think you are pretty much as Australian as you need to be to represent the country.

I think the current rules of 3 years or residence (if that is what it is) is a fairly reasonable time lapse before I'd imagine some would consider Australia a "home away from home".
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Frank
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« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2007, 04:40:13 AM »

I think that if someone had come to Australia to play with the Dingos because they didn't think that they would make thier own team - that would annoy me.


Would that actually ever happen though?

Would someone really travel all the way to another country, just to be able to play in World Championships? For a foreign nation???

I think that the chances of that happening are extremely remote. It's a hella expensive way to play some high level frisbee. And I don't see the incentive for people to do it either - surely half the reason to get to a world championships is to represent your country, not some other random one.

On the other hand, if you were a top player from another country who came here to work or study, and was good enough to make the dingos (which I think is a more realistic scenario) I personally wouldn't have a problem with that - but I could see how a local, who is on the cusp of selection, could get annoyed.
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