UltiTalk.Com
Welcome to the ULTIMATE Ultimate Frisbee forum. October 01, 2020, 12:58:25 PM
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

The ultimate forum for talking about Ultimate Frisbee. Aimed at bringing new life to the world of Ultimate Frisbee discussions, UltiTalk.Com (UT) combines both regional and international topics in one friendly place. So say hello to UT: The International Ultimate Frisbee forum.

Register your FREE UltiTalk.Com account to reveal the members-only Shout Box, Chatroom, and more!
Tweak it out. Customize the look and feel of UltiTalk by changing your Theme Settings.
 
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Members Links Gallery Login Register  
Visit UltiTalk.Com on TwitterVisit UltiTalk.Com on Facebook

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down
Del.icio.us Digg FURL FaceBook Stumble Upon Reddit SlashDot Google Bookmarks Ma.gnolia MSN Live Squidoo Yahoo My Web     Bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: Spirit  (Read 46410 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
moroney
Full Member
***

Karma: +14/-12
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 136



View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2008, 06:57:14 PM »

Nice one tiger, good to see the HOS mentality travels far and wide. Way to smash bitter barry brettski about his long-term hat tourney pipe.

So Brett you've never made a bad call ever?

I'm with Frank. Name and Shame!
Logged

Yaaayahhh HOS and Monash
Frank
Full Member
***

Karma: +8/-0
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 104



View Profile
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2008, 08:36:35 AM »

Haha Brett I didn't even read your story originally. I just assumed it was a big pipe about someone making an allegedly bad call, and was trying to slip in a witty comment (trying being the operative word)

But then I read it...

Basically what you are saying is...you got scored on in a hat tournament.
You then made a call that your player was out. After being scored on. In a game where you had already won by five points. In a hat tournament.

On reflection, I can see the other guy's point...


Logged
Tiger
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +22/-10
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 304



View Profile
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 04:17:36 AM »

Basically what you are saying is...you got scored on in a hat tournament.
You then made a call that your player was out. After being scored on. In a game where you had already won by five points. In a hat tournament.

On reflection, I can see the other guy's point...

"What's spirited play, dear?"
"Well, mum, basically it means bending or completely ignoring the rules so that you can smash beers together later on that night."

I love this game.

T.
Logged

thoughts and stuff - sifultimate.blogspot.com
ulty_arnie
Full Member
***

Karma: +13/-6
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 138



View Profile
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 03:44:26 PM »

What is the HoS mentality?  How do you define it?

I don't what others think or say, but I love you guys!
Logged
Brettski
Full Member
***

Karma: +3/-15
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 117



View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2008, 05:05:39 AM »

Frankie i thought i made it clear that i WASN'T scored on Wink
And by 'bad call', i mean that i've never intentionally called something the other way - i'm sure ive made plenty of bad calls according to others haha but that's how ultimate rolls

i just don't want to make a false call to END a game of ultimate - i mean who wants it to END??




Logged

Tanty
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +11/-0
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 88



View Profile
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2008, 01:27:57 AM »

Having lurked around the fringes of ultitalk for a month or two, I've finally found a topic I can't crap on about extensively without having to really make a definative point.

Having played for what seems like forever in ultimate circles (I just passed my 5.5 year mark) at a variety of standards (mainly low and social) I've formed my own opinion of what I consider good spirit. From nationals (recently) to NSL div 4 I've played both with and against a lot of players/teams with spirit levels ranging from exceptional (Tiger, Bozz, Beast and Simon Farrow all are on MY list of fantastically spirited players) to fairly poorly spirited (whom I will not name).

As my own inadequacies as a player prevent me from commenting on a lot of aspects of the game in a forum such as this, spirit is something that all players of all levels in ultimate can have an opinion of and that opinion is equally valid. I've always prided myself on "good spirit" (I still think you can count the calls I've made tat have been contested using your fingers) and I've played on (and even captained) a few teams that have won spirit at various leagues/tournaments and I always feel slightly disappointed when my team is not around the top in spirit. I was so proud of a team I captained when that team came 2nd or 3rd in spirit DESPITE forfeiting a game due to uni games and receiving no spirit score for that round... and we won the league too.

In all this time one thing is very clear to me, everyone has a different idea of what is good and what is bad spirit. Now taking Bozz's example (because I think Bozz and I share a similar outlook on most aspects of the game... except maybe what to do when someone shouts "duck") and he and I go about giving spirit in a very different way. I've always taken a spirit score of 7 as generally a "baseline" and then changed that based on how much I enjoyed the game. If I thought they were a nice team and enjoyed playing them they get an 8... Really nice and they'll get a 9 and I always saved 10/10 for exceptionally well spirited teams, and I think i've given maybe 2 or 3 of those over the years. Poorly spirited teams (which in my opinion is as much how you act on the field as the calls you make) will get a 5 or 6 and I've only ever given lower than that once. I find my personal enjoyment of the game a decent indicator of spirit, I don't mind calls being made if they're valid, I don't even mind being absolutely chumped (which happens a lot), I think people calling their own fouls (on themself) is a fantastic thing that we alone at frisbee get, I love it when players do something spectacular (both on my team of the opposition) and always try to tell them just how awesome I think that was and i will fall deeply in love with anyone who tells me I did something well. I don't enjoy teams playing with no respect for their opposition (be they my team or the other), I don't like it when teams start "using" the rules to gain an advantage and I cannot stand "foul/pick/strip" being answered with "You CANNOT be f*cking serious" or similar reply... If they don't agree you say "contested" not "bullsh*t!". If you disagree with a call, contest it. I don't make a call if I don't think it's valid (and like to think that's the same for everyone) and no amount of bad language or volume will make me change it, all it does is decrease my (and I'm guessing others) enjoyment of the game.

Anyway that all aside, there's a fairly long list of things I consider poor spirit. Some like "dodgy" calls and spiking the disc in front of the defender are fairly obvious and we all agree on. But I've played against league teams that have forced teams to play savage or down players because they won't allow pick ups (I've never said no to a pick up in my life... although I did ask a div 1 player to "go easy" on my div 3 team once), I've been made to play less than savage because the other team see it to their advantage to force us to play a gender split we couldn't match... Now I know everyone likes to win, but forcing a team to forfeit or being dicks about the rules in a sport like ultimate in what is essentially the lower division of a social league seems to be poor spirit to me. We're all there to play first and win second in my mind. One particular incident springs to mind... a league team I was on was forced to forfeit (because the other team wouldn't allow us any pick ups and it was uni games week) and when this happened and my team decided to go home rather than hang out in the cold we where told that it was "poor spirit" because our opposition wanted to play a pick up game with us and our pick ups that they had earlier disallowed from playing, now I don't blame any of my players for wanting to go home but things like that have contributed to a certain amount of "bad blood" between our two teams (at least from my side)... However most of these "incidents" over the years are restricted to a few teams that I've regularly played against. On the whole I've found most people are fairly well spirited with just a few bad apples scattered around. And it's when those bad apples either don't have someone to reign them in or all end up on one team do you suddenly end up with an opposition that you don't actually enjoy playing.

Having re-read that post I'm sounding a bit like I'm up on a high horse looking down on everyone as the perfectly spirited player... I have no doubt there will be a large number of conflicting views about my own actions and there are a few incidents I'm definately not proud of (a teammate's actions at a nsl final was a definate "spirit low" for me) and the less said about my own behaviour at mixed regionals the better (apologies to all those on my team who had to put up with me... you know why).

Of course this is all based around my fairly extensive beginner/social league experience and things are very different at a higher level I've noticed... I've found at lower levels I let a lot more "calls" go by, especially when playing against less experienced players in favour of explaining what happened to them afterwards... But this lead to an interesting call made at league last night (and possibly the only unique/worthwhile point of this post). Player A (on my team) had the disc and threw to player B (on my team), Player 1 (on the opposition) bumped player B in the air and player B dropped the disc. Player 1 immediately (in what I see as great spirit) asked "did I foul you?" to which player B replied "Nah, there wasn't much in it, turnover and play on"... What lovely spirit I hear you all chorus until I add the appendix discussion between myself and players 1 and B. I said "it would've been close" to which player B replied "if it was nationals I would've called it" and player 1 (also a nats player) said "yeah at nationals that was a foul"... Does this mean we're playing by a different set of rules at a higher level (at least in our mind with what we can call) or just with a different level of spirit?

Anyway, hopefully that's something for someone else (besides me to think about) I've blabbed on enough for one post

Love, Hugs and Kisses
ANt
(1300 words)
Logged

No sign of a point yet...
JdR
Full Member
***

Karma: +11/-3
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 217



View Profile
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2008, 02:09:20 AM »

Nice post.

One small element you raise is forfeiting or not due to a lack of players of the right gender (and also due to lateness).  Its a regular issue for leagues and has come up a bit recently in Brisbane.  Here's a few points I've been meaning to turn into a blog post but haven't yet.

What's Spirited:

In my view, if you can't field a team at a reasonable time that matches the agreed rules of the league, then its spirited to a) apologise;  b) offer to forfeit your league points and c) propose a way to use the time to play a game (either with pickups, trading a few players between the two teams, or mixing both teams up).

This demonstrates your respect for the agreed rules, and respect for your opponents, as well as your love for the game (having a good run around where everyone's happy is preferable than people disagreeing about whether the game counts for league points).

In response, its reasonable to consider a compromise and discuss that with your team.  Perhaps your team prefers the proposed compromise too (eg while you may have enough of both genders to play according to a 4/3 rule, you might have semi-injured players who'd prefer a 5/2).

But, its is certainly a spirited response is to a) accept the forfeit;  b) acknowledge the good spirit of those offering the forfeit, acknowledging its a hard ask to take responsibility for your team-mates not turning up;  and c) get going on having an enjoyable game. 

What's Not:

It's a common misconception that when a team is short/late, it is reasonable to ask their opponents to accept a compromise (using pickups or changing gender requirements or delaying the start), implying that a spirited opponent would or should agree (and that it would be unspirited to say "No").  Yes, its not your individual fault if your team-mates don't show up.  But it is your team's fault and your team should take responsibility.

Forcing your opponents to make the decision about accepting a compromise or a forfeit isn't taking responsibility or showing respect for their ability to have a legal team there on time.  You should make the decision.  Forfeit, do it quickly and politely, and you'll be able to get on with having a run around.

And its certainly unspirited that if a team offers you a forfeit and proposes to play a game for fun, to say thanks for the forfeit and go home.  It makes it obvious that you're not there for the sheer joy of play!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2008, 02:25:31 AM by JdR » Logged

Tanty
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +11/-0
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 88



View Profile
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2008, 09:14:19 PM »

I agree it wasn't particularly spirited to forfeit and go home of us, and I'm sure we don't want this thread to degenerate into everyone (ie me) attempting to defend every single thing mentioned here. Admittedly there was a little bit of bad blood (perhaps "competitive desire" would be more appropriate) but I feel that in the circumstances it was poor spirit to enforce the forfeit too. I'm not sure how things work in other leagues but in div 2/3 NSL there is a fairly common situation (at least once a season/twice a year) where the various uni based teams have there numbers slashed because most of the squad has gone off to play uni games. People not showing without a decent reason doesn't show much respect for their opposition (or indeed their own teammates) but not turning up because of something like uni games doesn't really strike me as poorly spirited (a pain in the ass for those there sure... but not bad spirit). From my recolection we had 3 players on the roster available and had talked 3 pick ups into showing up (making us still a player down), Our opposition (all 12-14 of them) whom were just below us on the table (around that time we were consistently around the top for a few seasons) elected to deny our pick ups and enforce a forfeit as that was to their best advantage on the table (and incidently hurt our spirit score too). After we forfeited they elected to play a pick up game by dividing up their team and grabbing a couple of hangers on to which they invited us to play, which we declined. So we didn't really stop them from playing, as they had enough players to play an "internal" game. Given the circumstances I think enforcing a forfeit was a little unspirited, as it was more than likely had we played they would've won anyway... Even had they given us the option of playing a "real" game with us getting the losing score and them getting the winning score I would've accepted that. Losing a game isn't as bad as forfeiting a game on the table... But their captain was intent on gaining "maximum advantage" out of the situation (or so it seemed to me)... and I just don't like playing with/against people like that...
It is similar (in a broad sweeping sense) to something that happened at NSW Regionals this year. Sunday morning, Fakulbee is at the fields shite and briney an hour before first pull (as always) warming up, throwing, stretching, plotting and generally being very serious about things. Time ticks by, and a member of our opposition (Ibeam) shows up... more time ticks by and noone else shows ("where's the rest of your team?" "I dunno")... Fakulbee warm up some more, do some drills, throw, change into dark shirts... more time ticks by until the game is due to start (by this time I'm so warmed up that it would be best to describe myself as "pooped") and there is no real sign of Ibeam, then over the hill Ibeam come running ("quick boys 7 on the line") to catch the pull to one of my favorite time out calls ever "Ibeam put your cleats on and have a throw!". Now that was a genuine mistake/confusion by someone (I don't know who and it doesn't affect the story to my mind) because to me that's not poor spirit. Had they not realised for a little bit longer they would've been in a position to lose points and possibly even have to forfeit and forcing them to do that wouldn't have sat well with me spirit wise. Even though the late-ness did work against us (we'd warmed and psyched up for so long we had begun to lose energy/intensity in my opinion). However had it been a deliberate move by Ibeam to be late I feel that would've been poor spirit... If that makes sense (it does to me). I guess what I'm attempting to say is the intention of player/teams action has more of an affect on the spirit score I assign (even if it's just in my mind) to them than the actual action itself. I've been accidently fouled many times (as has everyone who's played the game) and to me that's not poor spirit (once at league I tried contesting a disc with Matt Dowle and I'm pretty sure I hit the ground shoulders first... but to my mind that was just incidental contact and not even a foul... plus I didn't really have a chance on the disc in hindsight). I do remember a player from interstate whom I played against who was obviously an AFL trained player and I was on the receiving end of a few shoulder bumps just while waiting in the stack, and to me that is poor spirit because those contacts (no matter how minor) were deliberate.

Which brings me to a second thought I had after yesterday's post (a post-post if you will...) if the intention is the key (which in my mind it is) it's the opposing team captain (and leadership group) that gives the team its spirit "vibe". It's those players who not only teach the newer/inexperienced players the rules and skills, but it's the intention and actions that show those player what is and isn't acceptable spirit wise. I learnt my basic skills, tactics and rules at Macquarie under the "Lee Coady Experience" and I'm fairly certain that a lot of aspects of what I do/don't consider spirited comes from watching/learning from the clubs experienced players (whom I think were all well spirited). I think if i was taught arguing the call, deliberate contact etc was acceptable if you can get away with it I'd be doing that now (still) and I'd have a very different view of what is or isn't acceptable.
One thing I do remember being somewhat confusing (and hopefully helps show my point) was during me "formative" years we (Macquarie) played a lot of zone (we still do) and one we used a lot against particular teams was assassination zone (I think double assassination line trap zone was about as ridiculous a zone I've ever played) and one of our experienced players really hated playing it as she felt it was in "poor spirit". She argued that it was basically saying "everyone on your team is crap but one person, and if we take them out you can't do anything", which is fairly poorly spirited (that's not showing much respect to the opposition team if you see it that way), but the rest of our leadership circle felt it was more saying "that person is really really good, lets try and minimise their effect" (which is kind of showing "healthy respect" for the individual if you see it that way). I'm still not sure which side of the fence I sit on there and I still hesitate to call (or even play) assassination zone because of those reasons (I always have to think "am I disrespecting the other team or respecting that player?"). Once again I've fallen back to action vs intention I guess. Discrespect is a similar (albeit slightly less effective and more humerous) example. Putting discrespect D on when you're 15-0 up stinks of poor spirit to me (as the play suggests you think the other team couldn't even score without a mark on them), putting it on when you 0-15 down doesn't make me think poor spirit, it just makes me think you must be buggered. And that leads on to my next point...

"Less experienced" teams. Teams lower on the table seem to get higher total spirit scores (normally). I'm sure everyone has noticed this, we're all surprised/delighted when a winning team also wins spirit. Is this because we expect "winning" teams to have played with less spirit? Or just because if you're winning people are more compelled to think you're a dick? Or is because playing with less spirit helps your results on the table? Whilst playing Hills league recently I came across a difference thought, one of the teams in one of the divisions (not naming names, but anyone who knows me probably knows who I mean) has difficulties winning games and plays to my mind an excessively physical and poorly spirited game. Now my team is definately not angels (nor are we the worst) but during a game against them (where they were getting very frustrated trying to break our zone) I was fouled and called it to which instead of the reply "contested/uncontested" I got "you're not going to call that are you? You're flogging us" and my reply "yes you fouled me and it's not allowed" didn't go down well with that player (I believe this teams rules knowledge is probably below average too). Later in the game when there was another contact (from the same player) but I didn't turn the disc i got the heckle from him while on the mark "so was that a foul too?" (in a fairly accusing tone). Should we "go easy" on a team infringing the rules if they're less experienced or able? I don't believe you should as this would just teach bad habits, but even I have the impression that "enforcing" the rules when you're up substaintially could possible be called poor spirit (at least by some). But speculating on all of that could take everyone months so i won't expand on it anymore beyond saying, Bozz's "italian stack" play is/was a masterstroke, but I think if a team that was higher on the table or up by a large margin tried it on me I would probably see it as "poor spirit" (sorry Bozz)... But once again I think I've circled around to intention vs action point from earlier.

Ah well there's a lot more words without much point... I guess what I was trying to get to there was, my opinion of the intention of an action is what affects my perseption of spirit not the action itself... And that's just down to an individuals opinion, which being individual is always different and related to their experiences... particularly as you're learning (now that's either a profound point or bollocks... I'm leaning towards bollocks)...

Love Hugs and Kisses
ANt
(1700 words... without a point)
Logged

No sign of a point yet...
JdR
Full Member
***

Karma: +11/-3
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 217



View Profile
« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2008, 12:33:51 AM »

Hey again ANt,

You raise another point of interest to me that I think comes up fairly often - the impact that University life can have on University teams that enter leagues - ie that Uni Games and Uni holidays can put a week or two of holes in a Uni-based team's efforts at Leagues.

The thing that tends to bug me is that this is fairly predictable.  These dates are flagged months ahead.

There's a couple of things that can be done.

For League Organisers:  If you're running a league and you have a notable number of Uni teams, and so Uni games or Uni holidays have a big effect then look up the calendar and consider rejigging your league.  Skip the affected week and make it training night or pickup night or something.  The absent players have paid for the lights via their league fee.  The players who are there get a free night of Ultimate.  Don't shut the night down entirely - this is a bit harsh for those players who want to play!  Setting the night aside for teams to train if they want to can improve the standard of the league.  Having pickup can improve the spirit of the league, as people get to swap around and play with people who are usually their opponents.  (I'd encourage you to consider these tactics for those weeks affected by elite players going off to major tournaments like Nats and Mixed Nats.  It's common for these weeks to be left empty or cancelled - but its a bit rough on everyone else to have to miss out!)

Another good trick for a League organiser is to set your draw up at the start of the season so that the week of Uni Games, your draw shows two Uni teams playing each other.  You can suggest that both teams forfeit (at least they're not robbing anyone else of a game);  or you can suggest they arrange to play the game some other time and send you the result (they can arrange this themselves - but give them a time limit so it doesn't drag out).

Finally, ensure your draw has a finals structure that still lets teams that maybe dropped a couple of games have a crack at winning the League.

For Uni Teams:  If you're a Uni team then you should know that holidays and uni games are going to affect your capacity to play in (and win) a League.  Act responsibly and accept it.  Why would you expect to be able to win your League when you can't field a team every week?  If you want to be on a Uni team, accept that this has some disadvantages.

But maybe you can be a bit proactive.  Consider recruiting a few alumni or non-students to the team for the season, to help you get through the disrupted period.  Ask the League organiser if there's still time to switch the draw around (but remember the more advance notice you can give them, the more they might be able to do).  Check the draw and contact your opponents a few weeks beforehand.  Let them know you're likely to be away or only able to field half a team.  Ask if they would consider playing the game another time, or if they would accept you having pickups.  If they say no thanks, forfeit the points but talk to them about having a game for fun anyway.  At least if they decide they don't want to play at all you'll know in advance and can save yourself the hassle of turning up.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2008, 12:37:33 AM by JdR » Logged

Tenk283
Sr. Member
****

Karma: +11/-147
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 473



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2008, 05:17:14 AM »

 Grin Spirit.

Love it. It is the entire point of ultimate. To win, with the highest spirit score possible.

 Grin

I think its been pretty well covered exactly what spirit is.

So i'm just going to throw up a few random things for people to comment on if they wish.

To me, Spirit is more important than winning. If I have a choice between "giving" the other team the game and being poor spirited game. I'm going to give them the game. If I foul someone in the endzone, I'll call it on myself and give them the game.

This doesn't bother me one little bit. It used to (i'm ex-soccer where behind the back stuff is fair game). But to me that is ultimate.

On Spirit, sometimes I do yell out ridiculous stuff to stir people up.... This is bad, I know. But its a habit I have fallen into. (I like heckling... unfortunately I heckle too much or at inappropriate moments). Do people agree with me that this is bad spirited?
Logged
simmo
Hero Member
*****

Karma: +45/-21
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 884



View Profile
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2008, 09:55:04 AM »

Great post, Tanty, but there's one point I don't agree with...
But I've played against league teams that have forced teams to play savage or down players because they won't allow pick ups (I've never said no to a pick up in my life... although I did ask a div 1 player to "go easy" on my div 3 team once), I've been made to play less than savage because the other team see it to their advantage to force us to play a gender split we couldn't match... Now I know everyone likes to win, but forcing a team to forfeit or being dicks about the rules in a sport like ultimate in what is essentially the lower division of a social league seems to be poor spirit to me.
I don't think a move like this is unspirited, because it is well within the rules that get established before a league starts.

And as for a Uni Games/league clash...JdR put it beautifully. This will happen so teams/LCs should be planning for it. What we've done in Melbourne the last few years is schedule that week's league games to be between the uni teams, or if there's an odd number, one of them having a bye. Then it was left up to the teams to either a) double forfeit, b) play the game at another time, or c) have their match-up at Uni Games count as the league result.
Logged

Time to waste? Visit the Ballarat Ultimate blog!
suj
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +4/-1
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 57


eeep, look ma, no hands!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2008, 10:59:11 AM »

Yep, in the few years I've been at UTS, we've always had some sort of representation at NSL (is it North Shore or Northern Suburbs league???) The draw for the season is up there for a reason, so we always look ahead and try to reschedule with the opposing captain, work something out or accept the forfeit. ECCs(EUGs) and AUGs are always gonna sap numbers and it's not a surprise.

This Monday was the first day of ECCs and was also a league night. So we played ECCs (got spanked thoroughly) and backed up and played Div 3 league later that night. A few of us were really lucky that our Div 2 team had a bye anyway but Tom Rocks had to go play on his Div 2 team. The newbies at UTS (they make up 66% of our makeup) asked if we had to play league and we said , "Yep!" coz we thought it would be really bad spirit and generally lame to forfeit the game coz we were tired and/or wanted to hit the party earlier. We actually didn't make it to the party that night because we're soft  Grin
Logged

omg i'm in so much pain...my knees hurt
Tanty
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +11/-0
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 88



View Profile
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2008, 11:20:53 PM »

On Spirit, sometimes I do yell out ridiculous stuff to stir people up.... This is bad, I know. But its a habit I have fallen into. (I like heckling... unfortunately I heckle too much or at inappropriate moments). Do people agree with me that this is bad spirited?

I think heckling being in poor spirit is different depending on who the heckler/hecklee are and their relationship. I've been playing with Axe for a number of years now, and I give him a lot of shit (relative to the amount of total shit I dish out he gets a very large % of it) and I don't think that's in poor spirit (most of the time we're on the same team anyway). We're mates, we've been mates for years, I know he can take it and no amount of the word "chump" will damage our friendship (hopefully) and there's a few other players I feel the same way about. They could say almost anything they wanted to me and I would take it as was intended, a good natured heckle. At this years stampede my team made the final and Axe's didn't (that is rare... generally if we are on different teams it's his team that is the "better" one... because he's a way better player than me) and every time I tuned in to what the crowd was yelling I heard him there heckling away and I have no problem with that, because we're friends. I think if it was someone I didn't know giving me that shit I'd be fairly upset by it, but with a mate you can just take it knowing it's just a demented form of love (of something like that)...
Of course the nature of the heckle is fairly important... "not a thrower" when Anson bricks the pull (AGAIN) is fine "you're shit and I hate you" not so fine. But again what you can get away with in good spirit relates to how well you know the player, would you ever call negative fantasy on someone you didn't know well? Or who wasn't a decent player in their own right?

But I think that all comes back to that intention/action again... If we're friends call me whatever you want (because I know there is love there), if you don't know me be nice otherwise I'll get all emo and cry (possibly, I've never been heckled by anyone who's not a friend)

And jeeves I always thought it was North Sydney League (NSL)

Love, Hugs and Kisses
ANt
(only 350 words)
Logged

No sign of a point yet...
suj
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +4/-1
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 57


eeep, look ma, no hands!


View Profile WWW
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2008, 11:59:23 PM »

I think heckling being in poor spirit is different depending on who the heckler/hecklee are and their relationship. I've been playing with Axe for a number of years now, and I give him a lot of shit (relative to the amount of total shit I dish out he gets a very large % of it)

haha. i give axe lots of shit (and hugs). i think everyone does  Grin
Logged

omg i'm in so much pain...my knees hurt
The Brucemaster
Jr. Member
**

Karma: +3/-3
Offline Offline

Australia Australia

Posts: 51



View Profile
« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2008, 09:41:23 PM »

Having read most of the thesis that is Tanty's combined posts I'm going to agree with him. Spirit for me is something largely based on 'feel' at the end of a match. I don't play in a match, see a call and decide that a team will gain/lose a spirit point. To me, that would first of all mean I'm not concentrating on playing and enjoying the game as much as I should be and second it just seems plain silly. Instead I'll usually come off at the end of a match and reflect on the general vibe of how it was played.

I've also found that general consensus in the Ultimate community is that 7 is a standard score. I can count on less than one hand the number of times I've given a spirit score below 7 and even then I'm the same as Tanty, it was only 5 or 6.

Like tenk I'm also an ex-soccer player and current soccer referee so in the early days of playing I had to adjust my attitude a bit because the concept of someone calling them self out when they probably thought they were in because spirit was more important than winning was slightly alien to me. Having played for a little while now I've changed my attitude completely and I really enjoy the spirit aspect of the game, possibly more than the competitive side.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
Del.icio.us Digg FURL FaceBook Stumble Upon Reddit SlashDot Google Bookmarks Ma.gnolia MSN Live Squidoo Yahoo My Web     Bookmark  |  Print  
 
Facebook Comments

Jump to:  






Advertise on UT!



Register your FREE UltiTalk.Com account to remove these ads!
Change language to English Change language to Brazilian Change language to Chinese-Simplified Change language to Danish Change language to Dutch Change language to English Change language to Finnish Change language to French Change language to German Change language to Greek Change language to Hebrew Change language to Hungarian Change language to Indonesian Change language to Italian Change language to Japanese Change language to Norwegian Change language to Polish Change language to Portuguese Change language to Romanian Change language to Russian Change language to Spanish Change language to Swedish Change language to Thai Change language to Turkish Change language to Ukranian Change language to Vietnamese

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines | Sitemap Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
UltiTalk.Com is the #1 forum and bulletin board for talking about, chatting about and discussing Ultimate Frisbee.
Please help spread the word to promote an international community of Ultimate Frisbee players, coaches and teachers.


Site Design By MWM Consulting, Inc. MWM Consulting, Inc.



Google last visited this page May 18, 2020, 02:43:20 PM
SimplePortal 2.1.1