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Author Topic: Player Safety/Protection - Brainstorm on Policy  (Read 18171 times)
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Tiger
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2007, 05:39:30 AM »

i dont think you can ban someone from playing because they are injured. it isnt harming any body elso on the feild, its only harming themselves. it is also impossible to define the term injured or injury fairly, and would have to be impossible say where the line is for what injuries are allowed to play and what injuries are.

cupcake

I get all of that and I'd agree that you're spot on. But I don't know, last couple of tournaments and games I've played - and I should have expressed that I was more referring to juniors ultimate, because I'm kind of assuming here that adults are sensible enough to know when to stop - have kind of shaken that out of balance.

You have to leave it to the player themselves to rule themselves injured and out of play.

I can't remember his name - I think it was Jimmy (Tod-Hill, maybe?) - who ran while he was injured and now can't play ever again? That's the worst thing I can think of happening to an Ultimate player and I think that despite however much Ultimate is a 'play at your own risk' affair, sometimes players cannot be trusted to make that judgement call themselves.

Maybe I did go too fair and an actual rule is too difficult a proposition. Fair enough. I just think that in some cases where the risk of prolonging or aggravating an injury is high, someone - attending physicians? TD's? - other than the players themselves should be allowed to decide whether or not they play. Because in my - admittedly not very broad - experience, players just want to play while injured regardless of the toll it might take on their body.

T.
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cupcake
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« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2007, 06:54:25 AM »

from my knowledge jimmys injury is a chronic injury and playing on it at nationals/worlds didnt affect the injury itself. (arthritis) yes in juniors ultimate it is a different story because the majority of us arent experienced with injuries/sport training/physio stuff, but i think you may find that this person (im assuming you are tlking about ellie?? Huh) did actually consult a professional**** at the tournie (youth nats) and was advised not to play, which she didnt. ****piers is training to be a professional (i thinks Huh)Smiley

i dont think at a normal tournie n e one can say you can not play because you are injured. if a player really wants to play, they will play. you see it in every sport, not just ultimate, and this cannot be stopped. when you step onto an ultimate feild you run the risk of getting injured regardless of pre-existing injuries/niggles. so a player must be trusted to make their own decision. you are always playing at your own risk...

cupcake
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a1214
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 12:36:10 AM »

Isn't there also the legal side?

I'm pretty sure the insurance wouldn't like to know that someone who was already broken just went and played and got more broken and now they have to pay for it?
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Jangles
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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 12:45:28 AM »

Quote
'm pretty sure the insurance wouldn't like to know that someone who was already broken just went and played and got more broken and now they have to pay for it?
I think you will find that you would not be covered for a pre-existing injury even if you make it worse, so if you play on an injury dont make it worse.
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Jangles
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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2007, 01:17:49 AM »

Can i bring up the specific issue of fields as i am getting fed up of rolling my ankles. It is getting to the point that i am gonna have to stop playing certain nights so that i dont injure myself(YUFL).

Also i would like to see the information on what you have to do if you suffer a serious injury at a league or tournament as there have been a number of times where the LD hasnt been around and minor incidents have occurred.(i dont mean call an ambulance but rather the paper work)
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JdR
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« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2007, 02:50:30 AM »

Thanks for the thoughts Jangles.

re:  field quality
This is a vexing one for Ultimate.  From the policy end, it would be lovely to prescribe some level of field quality.  But from the practical end, where many areas are desperate for fields / it takes lots of effort to find fields and establish relationships / etc, this isn't really something that can be taken on.

My thinking on this in terms of the other chat here about 'pitch policy' was probably more about players having a good look at their pitch before they play on it - at least to know the lay of the land etc (cover sprinklers with discs, note hard areas, etc) which is what most experienced players do anyway.

On the overall quality, all I can recommend is taking field quality up with local administrators, and be aware of the old adage "you get what you pay for".

re:  injury
I'm not sure what you're after here. 

I think you mean 'how can we report injuries so that we can build an injury database which might help with future decision making'?  Its something that's been talked about as being added to the afda.com website when its upgraded (link to "Injury Reporting Form" with drop down menus for common injuries, which adds it to a database). 

If you mean 'how can I get some money to help with my injury costs' then its nice if the LD knows, but just as valuable if nearby 'experienced players' can ensure they recall what happened if asked as part of your insurance claim (or claim via the Association's Member Compassionate Fund).

Otherwise, I guess you can/should always tell the LD later, if what you're after is for them to have the info so they can consider changes to how they run the League (for example, if Malloy knows about several rolled angles at Yeronga, he might try to find alternative fields for future seasons).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 07:18:43 PM by JdR » Logged

JdR
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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2007, 07:41:14 AM »

Hey again,

I'm just doing the policy review work, and came across a point made earlier that I wanted to check.

Earlier, Johnny Mac quoted:

Quote
20.1. Injury Stoppage
20.1.1. An injury stoppage, “Injury”, may be called by the injured
player, or a teammate if the injured player is unable to call it
immediately in which case the call is said to have occurred at the
time of the injury.
20.1.3. If the injury is not the result of a foul (contested or not),
the player must be substituted, otherwise the player may choose to
stay.

Therefore, if you call injury and it's not because of a foul, you must sub.
This becomes a problem when people look like they're hurt and their team-mates call the injury, but the player was actually OK and does not want to leave the field. Happens relatively frequently, actually...

So I guess if you fall on your arse and roll around a bit with no foul called, and one of your team-mates calls 'Injury' out of a sense of humanity, then you're going to be substituted.
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JdR
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2008, 11:23:00 PM »

Hey kids,

For those still interested, I'm just on the verge of a Safe Play campaign to kick off 2008.

It'll start with a flyer on the email lists outlining 10 tips for safe play.  I've aimed to keep each message as brief and simple as possible, but each one ties back to some wider element of game rules or association policy.  Any comments welcome.

10 Key Safe Play Messages

1.  All players are entitled to a safe environment, by law, by the rules of Ultimate including Spirit of the Game, and in consideration of others.

2.  In Ultimate, all players are referees, and all players are responsible for safe play for themselves and others.

3.  Ultimate is non-contact.  Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of the bond of mutual respect between players, adherence to the agreed upon rules of the game, or the basic joy of play.

4.  Organisers can support safe play by planning, providing and monitoring for a safe environment;  and by making decisions on behalf of the group.

5.  In hot weather, the risk of heat injury – ranging from cramps and exhaustion through to death - is significant.  Combat the risk by changing plans, using sun protection and re-hydration measures, and provide for additional rest.

6.  Sun protection is essential as Australia has the highest incidence of skin cancer in the world.  Sunscreen and shade should be available to all players at every event.  Hats are encouraged.

7.  Lightning kills several people in Australia each year.  Play should stop and players should seek shelter whenever the flash-to-bang time is thirty seconds or less.

8.  Poor field quality and nearby obstructions can cause considerable injury to players.  Organisers should inspect fields before booking and seek better alternatives, even at greater cost and inconvenience.  Players should inspect fields and clear sidelines before play and act on concerns.

9.  A player who is pregnant or injured should seek medical advice and take into account the effect she will have on other players when making the decision to participate in Ultimate.

10.  Playing while your judgement is impaired by alcohol and other drugs risks the safety and enjoyment of all players.  Use of performance-enhancing drugs impinges on the safety, health and right to fair-play of all players, and their use goes against the basic spirit of Ultimate.

The AFDA.com website provides extensive material on Safe Play in Ultimate.  If you have any concerns about Safe Play, please contact your local Ultimate organiser, or the AFDA via [email protected]
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