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Author Topic: Uni Challenges 08  (Read 92020 times)
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Henry
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« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2008, 01:48:52 AM »

It'd be great if the people organising the various uni teams could add me to msn [email protected] so we can talk about this a bit better.  I don't exactly check here regularly.  Or at least look me up on facebook, Michael Thomas.  I'm a friend of UTS Frisbee which should be easier to find.
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DaveR
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« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2008, 01:53:07 AM »

personnally i dont even care about the party...if the point of the IV is to make a competitive ultimate tournie, the party would be the last consideration in my mind.

it would be interesting to hear what costing would be (plus or minus party stuff)...i really doubt a 2 day IV would be $70 ( even if your including party stuff) Prob more like 40/50 at a guess.

the fact that its in sydney as well, and everyone is lving in there own homes, kinda ruins the vibe anyway. last year (UTS and CSU excluded) was really lame from the other teams, who couldnt b bothered to show because everyon just played tournament and went home...we stayed together as a team in coogee in mikes sweet pad, but noone else really bothered. still, there were plenty of other randoms at party from all differnt sports, and still had a sweet time, but i think that was partly cos of the decision we made to stay as a team and not just go home after games.

saying that i'm kinda straddling opinion wise (although ill basically just do whatever sydney decides to do)...whatever its gonan be i just want it to have full support...no point having a crap ECC, or a crap IV, or both at the same time. Either of them are only worht doing if they are a dcently sized tournament. I guess Tom from one perspctiv the poitn in having IV over ECC would be that if 5/6 teams turned up this year to ECC for a 3 day rather expensive tournament, then thats kidna sucky. If more uni's play ECC and you get 8 and upwards playing, then the arguments to splinter get weaker i think. Although i cant really tnink of mroe than 8 or 9 uni's that play frisbee in NSW, adding Mac and UWS to last years mob

(can anyone tell i have an exam on monday from the frequency/length of posts?)
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Henry
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« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2008, 02:08:34 AM »

It would be very hard to get FULL support of all the unis to an event other than the ECCs because Mac is hosting it and is obliged to go and I'm sure there are other unis that don't really want to turn their back on AUS.

Possible teams are: Mac, USyd, UNSW, UWS, UTS, Woollongong, ANU, CSU.  Sorry if I've forgotten anyone.

If 2 or 3 can't make it to the not-IV then you have 5 teams which is the same as last years ECCs.

Then you're proposing making it a 2 day event instead of 3 day event which begs the question of whether it is worth it for teams like ANU and CSU travelling to Sydney for 2 days of games with only 5 teams and no social afterwards?

I can't see any Uni event in NSW ever getting more than 8 teams unless it's either:
1. A national event like AUGs
2. Actually has some prestige
3. Unis have more than one team entering
or
4. Allows teams/players outside of unis to play
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DaveR
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« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2008, 02:17:41 AM »

I have no authority/position re 2/3 days or party/no party, im just musing/procrastinating



Possible teams are: Mac, USyd, UNSW, UWS, UTS, Woollongong, ANU, CSU.  Sorry if I've forgotten anyone.


Newcastle

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Henry
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« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2008, 02:32:11 AM »

Not talking about you Maple Tongue  You're still my hero!

Sorry all the Newcastle people out there!  Don't think I've ever seen the Newcastle Uni Ultimate players though.
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« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2008, 03:53:40 AM »

It's the internet. Awesome.

Um, shouldn't the powers that be send an email to one of yahoo!groups mailing lists that ECC/not-IV is being decided on a forum?
And does Hari read all this since he's like the UFNSW Uni guy. He's still the Uni-Guy, right?

If the not-IV is a serious option, then I'd at least like to see a price breakdown from Brett-Tarn-Bozza (BTB) really soon.
I wanna know what the individual player is going to pay and where that money goes, since this is basically a money, or lack of, issue.

By the way I think that playing in ECC, where ultimate is incorporated with all these other sports will feel like it's more worth my time, money and effort.



Other unis I've seen at EUGs in Tamworth and Coffs: Southern Cross, ACPE, ACU, UC
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« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2008, 04:28:24 AM »

At this stage, we've had support from CSU, Usyd, Newcastle, UNSW (in principle - pending actual confirmation) and we've been in cotact with some of the QLD teams (which although haven't 100% confirmed, have expressed real interest in this proposed tournament.) Bozza is out of action for a while and is our contact for ANU, U Can, ACPE and UWS. [Responses should have been received by now - T.B.A.]. A Wollongong contact is still trying to be sourced! [Does anyone know who to contact?!]

ECC's may have connotations of "uni games" but its not. Using ecc's soley as a promotional strategy for ultimate and its beginners is not what its there for. A number of people would agree with me, even Bozza as TD, that last years ecc's, as a result of the number of restrictions imposed by AUS, was shit. Would you agree that an ultimate tournament would be run better by one from the ultimate community? (Rather than a body that holds it based on a legal gimmick? - referring to simmos previous posts)

This will be competitive. We want clubs to use this as a way for their [likely] AUGs team to compete in a competitive setting, enhancing team dynamic and playing some quality ultimate. A tournament run over 3 days with 6 teams will be shit. That, is what eccs was last year. The tournament, at this stage, would like to see clubs submit 2 teams (an AUG's team and a not-so-AUGs-team). Including alumni players or not uni players that wont be playing at AUG's is counterintutitive and not what we want it to be.

Terming the tournament an "Intervarsity" evokes connotations which we have attempted to distance ourselves from. An IV is never what we have intended to run. It hasnt been mentioned in any emails to club representatives and never will. Sure, a competition between universities is termed an IV, but do you call AUG's an IV? We want to structure this tournament similar to an AUGs setting, whereby clubs competitevly compete. An IV is (among many other things) a way to develop beginners. The things practiced in training should be trialed. This tournament will not be "another IV" and will not be directed to beginners (like the recent usyd IV was openly geared towards). The prestige of this tournament will come from uni club players having the opportunity to play against NSWs [and hopefully QLDs] best.  

Id like to know, were the southern uni ultimate clubs alientated by their sports associations when it was agreed that they would be "boycotting" the south coast challenge? Brett and I are meeting with the Usyd sports assocation co-ordinator tomorrow re this tournament. We expect that they will enthusiastically support us, like they do AUG's, in creating this proposed tournament.

Support has been received, this tournament will go ahead, some decisions will be made in consultation with club administrators (like the partys), but now the wheels are in motion.
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simmo
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« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2008, 04:38:49 AM »

And does Hari read all this since he's like the UFNSW Uni guy. He's still the Uni-Guy, right?
...

I've emailed him a few times this year and got no response yet.


Id like to know, were the southern uni ultimate clubs alientated by their sports associations when it was agreed that they would be "boycotting" the south coast challenge?
It depends on the club's relationship with their association. Ballarat, Melbourne and Monash had full support (more of a "do whatever you like, doesn't bother us"), Latrobe runs their own show so that didn't matter. Deakin's association got rather stroppy but they're not really an established club.

It shouldn't matter if you never commit to going in the first place. They can't MAKE you go.
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rachelg
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« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2008, 06:34:03 AM »

And does Hari read all this since he's like the UFNSW Uni guy. He's still the Uni-Guy, right?
...

I've emailed him a few times this year and got no response yet.

Hari is NSW universities coordinator, he is regularly in contact at UFNSW meetings so I'm surprised you haven't had response from him.

Just a reminder that ultitalk is NOT an official forum for the AFDA or any of the state associations. There are yahoogroup mailing lists set up for universities http://www.afda.com/showcontenti.php?page=uni_contacts
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mattdowle
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« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2008, 08:33:04 AM »

Haha - funny how ultimate players are never happy at what there is, how they always want to make things more difficult and how they are unwilling to leave the control or power to someone else.

Please don't take that statement (or what other stuff I say) and use it to dampen the enthusiasm, passion and the spirit from likes of Bozza, Brett, Mike, Simmo etc. Great tournaments are run by people like them mostly because of those traits stated above. Just providing an opinion and alternate view.

I'm not going to go through the pro's and con's of the Usyd tournament, you can figure it out yourself - you're all smart people.

Mike, in regards to your question about entering a team - its a little more complicated than that. Mostly because I'm trying to have nothing to do with the admin side of things with the club this year (a few other things on my plate). I'm just being a voice. You would have to ask Hayley those questions. Also, being purely selfish - I wouldn't want to put myself in a situation where I either be the only team to enter ECC's or tell sports assoc about Usyd tourny. Just a thought - would the Usyd tournament be happy to pay for the cost of the Mac Uni team entering? With ECC's, we might not even have to pay for anything as such is our support from the Sports Association? Yes, I know we would be extremely lucky with this. Having said all that and basically stated my objection to the Usyd tourny, I feel if you spoke to Hayley, she would be in support of Usyd tourny.

For those few juniors who attend uni - you might find your training camp / youth nationals is being run at the same time. A lot of ultimate will be happening that week/weekend.

Also, the yahoogroups email would be the best to grab interest from uni's as they are the official channels with club administrators - but it seems as though you have contact from most uni's already.

Another thought - why don't you put all this effort from ultitalk and running another tourny into getting teams to ECC's. Most things are organised for you, including fields, first aid, other logistics, draw (obviously you wouldn't mind how this is done because you just want to play), party (you could just organise for frisbee to attend one place and get extra specials) etc. If you're talking about the difference of $40 being the driving force for running another tourny - personally I think that is pathetic and there are much greater worries in life.

Parties at EUG's and AUG's are always going to be better because the majority is away from home, often smaller town and effort is expended in attending. If you don't want to party with ECC's, just organise your own and don't buy the social pass.

At the end of the day - I remember a time where frisbee fought so hard through the likes of Martin Laird to be involved with other sports and to be included in EUG's and AUG's. It was a massive step forward for us as a sport - would be ashame to start making our way back. I know is this extreme and we are only talking about ECC's, but in my mind its still significant.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2008, 08:38:17 AM by mattdowle » Logged
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« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2008, 09:08:35 AM »

I suppose I should point out the cost of the actual LCC tournament wasn't a key deciding point in the Victorian teams abandoning it. The two key reasons were...
1) What our associations were charging (Deakin were paying $300 per player) for three days in Traralgon (complete shithole. We were there in 05)
2) The non-qualification system meant SA and TAS weren't bothering to come, significantly reducing the standard.

For what it's worth, I think you guys should stick with ECC if it's only going to cost you $110 or so. Especially CSU and Newcastle because regional unis have started to receive extra federal funding for sports via AUS, and a key performance indicator is participation at AUS events. Another reason is East region is far more likely to attract teams from new universities. In South there's only one university that's never had an ultimate team, and even then we're working to change that.
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« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2008, 10:41:54 AM »

Well, if it seems like there will be a large number of people that won't be able to go to the IV, can the organisors of ECC accomodate the teams from other areas that want to come down and get some good competition?
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Chris
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« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2008, 12:31:04 PM »

Gref has beat me to the punch, but it seems like things have progressed quite a bit on this topic, and I feel I should chime in on behalf of UQ...

and we've been in cotact with some of the QLD teams (which although haven't 100% confirmed, have expressed real interest in this proposed tournament.)
I don't know who you have been speaking to up in QLD, but I know I jsut had a chat with a bunch of the UQ exec today, and we will be having a meeting soon after Nationals to sort out what our agenda is for 2008. Though at this stage I think amoungst the UQ exec there is a general interest to go to either the ECC or the IV if possible. I can't speak on behalf of everyone at UQ, but I know I personally would prefer to be attend ECC rather than an independently run IV (or whatever else you planned it to be) and for the large part, I agree with Matt in that the Ultimate community should stop trying to alienate itself from events run by AUS sport for the sake of a few dollars. Hell the few extra bucks are worth it just to play on Ultimate fields with actual lines!

With that said, I highly doubt the UQ team will travel to ECC if UQ makes us take an accommodation package via them - because it will no doubt be excessively expensive, in which case the independent IV would suit us better. With that said, if UQ was able to organize itself and get a team or two to come down to ECC would Sydneysiders be willing to offer UQers a place to crash in their lounge rooms to save on costs?


Quote
This will be competitive. We want clubs to use this as a way for their [likely] AUGs team to compete in a competitive setting, enhancing team dynamic and playing some quality ultimate. A tournament run over 3 days with 6 teams will be shit. That, is what eccs was last year. The tournament, at this stage, would like to see clubs submit 2 teams (an AUG's team and a not-so-AUGs-team).
If you want the tournament to be "competitive" I highly recommend making sure you get the best uni teams in Australia in attendance, ie UQ and Mac... and it sounds like at the moment that you will find that both UQ and Mac would opt to compete at ECC over an independently run tournie that isn't Uni specific.

Quote
Terming the tournament an "Intervarsity" evokes connotations which we have attempted to distance ourselves from. An IV is never what we have intended to run. It hasnt been mentioned in any emails to club representatives and never will. Sure, a competition between universities is termed an IV, but do you call AUG's an IV? We want to structure this tournament similar to an AUGs setting, whereby clubs competitevly compete. An IV is (among many other things) a way to develop beginners. The things practiced in training should be trialed. This tournament will not be "another IV" and will not be directed to beginners (like the recent usyd IV was openly geared towards). The prestige of this tournament will come from uni club players having the opportunity to play against NSWs [and hopefully QLDs] best. 
I didn't really understand what you were trying to say here? Are you saying this tournament will be uni student only? or will it be a free for all but with uni teams in attendence?

To be completely honest I personally have no real interest in traveling interstate to play in essentially a social tournament that allows anything other than Uni students to compete (which is also difficult to regulate when you are run independently). There are mixed leagues and tournaments held fairly regularly up here in QLD that UQ already plays in, so if we aren't traveling to specifically play other Uni teams then I don't think UQ will really have a big interest in attending.


the fact that its in sydney as well, and everyone is lving in there own homes, kinda ruins the vibe anyway. last year (UTS and CSU excluded) was really lame from the other teams, who couldnt b bothered to show because everyon just played tournament and went home...we stayed together as a team in coogee in mikes sweet pad, but noone else really bothered.
If you live in Sydney you could always offer to billet UQ players who would be rowdy enough to drag your sorry Sydney ass out for a good drinking session! This would solve the weak Sydney party attitude as well as the UQ accommodation issue...

Tongue
Quote
If more uni's play ECC and you get 8 and upwards playing, then the arguments to splinter get weaker i think. Although i cant really tnink of mroe than 8 or 9 uni's that play frisbee in NSW, adding Mac and UWS to last years mob
UQ would seriously consider sending two smallish teams if it was the ECC - obviously pending female involvement (it always comes down to the damn women), if we could get 8 - 10 girls interested we'd definitely send two teams.


By the way I think that playing in ECC, where ultimate is incorporated with all these other sports will feel like it's more worth my time, money and effort.
I also prefer to play in an organized event like ECC or AUG over an independent event.
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Tiger
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« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2008, 12:44:21 PM »

Well, if it seems like there will be a large number of people that won't be able to go to the IV, can the organisors of ECC accomodate the teams from other areas that want to come down and get some good competition?

Yeah, can't we all just get along?

Jokes, jokes - death to USYD.

I think most of us (even the Queenslanders, who financially have the most at hypothetical stake) are over the cost issue, so I guess the big glaring thing is the standard of competition at such a tournament.

If uni attendance is the big problem here then why split the talent pool?

After attending your IV a month back (and the Stampede last year) I have absolutely no doubt in what you guys can achieve as TD's, but (and I figure I'm reiterating old points others have made more clearly here) surely the effort would be better spent in liaising with AUS (Hari? Olly?) to address the few remaining concerns that aren't solved once Brett puts his hand up to billet UQ free of charge?

T.
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« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2008, 09:58:12 PM »

Yeah, can't we all just get along?

If uni attendance is the big problem here then why split the talent pool?
Some nice sentiments there Tiger! I like the simplicity of the statement "If uni attendance is the big problem here then why split the talent pool?"

I know the number of teams involved is the primary concern for UQ. We want to go down and play against as many other Uni teams as possible. In the event that half of the teams go play ECC and the other have play the independent tournie, I think UQ would give both of them the miss. After all when it comes to Uni ultimate surely it has to be a situation of "the more the merrier".

Also I'd just like to quickly mention that I shot off an email last night to our UQ sports manager, and it turns out we only need to take the UQ accommodation package if we are attending GCC. So this definitely helps UQ's plight to get down to play and party with you NSWers.

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