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Author Topic: ho stack defense  (Read 29027 times)
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ax
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« on: January 31, 2007, 04:18:50 PM »

what would you recommend as the best type of defense against a ho stack?
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Barbu
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2007, 06:08:39 PM »

I like the sharing-the-load approach.

The two defenders on each side combine their forces. One of them poaching in and the other poaching out. Usually the taller one taking the deep 'zone'. Of course the offense can adjust to that with some set plays, but should work at least initially.

Cheers,
Simon
 
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Col.Mustard
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2007, 09:47:20 PM »

With any situation, offence is looking for an advantage or weakness in the defence to score.  Change the situation, you change the advantage.

Horizontal has an advantage to the 'O' when 'D' is playing man, switching to zone (1-3-3, etc) or a poach with a straight up mark to stop the huck alters the situation.  When the 'O' adjusts to the change in play, 'D' needs to change again, and so on.

C.

Ps. Or you can just be faster!  Cheesy


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Seppo
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« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2007, 12:01:54 PM »

Good points Barbu and Mustard (and nice pic Colonel  Shocked).

When you're playing man, the best set-up I have found is "the sandwich".  This is basically what Barbu said re: sharing the load.  The Ho stack typically has 4 men across, with 3 handlers behind (in this example direction of play is going down).

H         H          H

    D             D

C      C     C      C

    D             D

------------------

H = Handler
C = Cutter
D = Defense

By putting one defenseman in front and one behind on both sides of the Ho, you can easily pick-up the cutter who comes your way.  This takes some very good communication among the defensemen though (lots of chatter).  Of course, the Ho cutters can "flood" a particular area to take advantage of this D setup, but that task is not so easy to do.

If you're team is really in tune, you can switch to a zone defense (as Mustard pointed out) as soon as you see the Ho setting up.  But you'd better be quick baby.

- Seppo DEUCE DEUCE
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DwightHarris
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« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2007, 01:07:51 PM »

Yes, but with bookends or the "Sandwich Defense" both cutters go in, for a 2v1 on the inside.

I would try a hard straight up mark (with the focus of not allowing any hucks) and playing the cutters in a little. All the cutters on D should just be mindful of swirly hucks that go up to help out.

-Dwight
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maxe
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« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2007, 09:54:19 PM »

"Yes, but with bookends or the "Sandwich Defense" both cutters go in, for a 2v1 on the inside.

I would try a hard straight up mark (with the focus of not allowing any hucks) and playing the cutters in a little. All the cutters on D should just be mindful of swirly hucks that go up to help out.

-Dwight"

This is exactly what I do when they try to do that("Sandwich Defense"), and they can't defend against it, a good ho stack will know to flood in or out and the defense is helpless
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wooyea02
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 07:21:54 AM »

Guarding a team that runs the ho stack well is incredibly difficult.  My college team last year tried multiple different ways to try and stop it, and the best we could do was slow it down.  The defense that worked the best for us was to flat-mark and have the other two defenders guarding the handlers poach the lanes.  We just let them swing it back and forth, getting to the marks as quick as possible to not let off an easy huck.  The players down field just played under a bit, but we tried to communicate to them when there was a big swing with a potential easy huck.  The thing that always killed us though was give-n-go's.  We never could figure out how to stop them from doing that, but like I said, this was the best defense we found on the college level.

And like maxe said, bracketing (Sandwich D) just doesn't work against a good team.  There is too much open space in the middle of the field for 2 people to guard 3-4 cutters cutting to them.  Lots of communication would help, but after a few swings, those playing under are screwed.
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RustyShackleford
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2007, 01:36:15 AM »

I think an underlying skill that is largely ignored is the ability to poach correctly. So many people don't poach well and never learn how to poach well, which has given poaching a bad name. We should teach proper poaching as a skill rather than discourage its use at all. If a team would teach and practice poaching (an individual skill) alongside switching (a team skill) then defenses like the sandwich would work much better against a stack-of-hos.
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bigley
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howdy


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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 03:51:18 AM »

Please go on Shackleford. Cool
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Watson
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 02:13:26 PM »

The best ho stack defense is hard man coverage with smart poaching a few cuts into the point.  Starting out with a hip-pocket, slightly behind man D prevents early cuts deep, while providing you with a close enough presence on an in-cut to keep pressure on a perspective throw.  After an unsuccessful deep cut, a person will generally cycle back in to the break sideline, and this is the time you can start looking to see if someone else is making a deep cut and you can poach over and pick it off.  Defensive men covering handles should poach the lane on occassion, but always get back for balls-tough coverage on the handles by stall 5.  Switching should occur when situations allow, such as when your man stops an in cut and busts deep, but cuts straight toward a defender whose man is beginning an in cut.  Your basic switch situation.  Take advantage when this happens, but you can't count on on it consistantly because of the spread nature of the H stack.
Learning how to poach properly is key to any defense and should be worked on.  There's a time for it and a time to bust your ass and cover someone.  Poaching right is not for lazy people.
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bigley
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2007, 11:22:21 AM »

prospective throws*
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Scapegoat13
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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2007, 08:03:30 PM »

my team has had a TON of trouble defending the Ho-stack for a while now, but we finally found a defense that works a little bit.  What we do is run a basic man to man, but we poach the lane with the force side handler.  In addition, we run the sandwich defense on the break side, and trust the mark.  As the disc moves towards the force sideline, the defenders can front their cutters more and the far break side defender helps out deep.


     D
              D   D
C     C     C    C
       D

            D

 HD   DH      H

Its definitely not perfect, but the whole point of the horizontal stack is that there is no defense that is.
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raymie_y
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2008, 02:34:39 PM »



     D
              D   D
C     C     C    C
       D

            D

 HD   DH      H

Its definitely not perfect, but the whole point of the horizontal stack is that there is no defense that is.


Something to watch for with this type of D is the wide swing to the poached handler and quick pass up the sideline. If you are getting burned by the 3-4 or 4-2 consistently, choose zone so the offense is unable to dictate the terms. If you cannot tell by now, I favor zone coverage to man. I like to have man coverage keep the offense guessing which type of D you're going to playing next.

-Raymie
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