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Author Topic: Ways to get better ???  (Read 43969 times)
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wlflover
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« on: October 08, 2008, 09:48:37 PM »

So I kinda just started playing but i reall want to get better. I know working on throws is really important and I am working on it but hat else can i do to get better? I run before pratice. I am getting a littl ebetter at cuts but I also need to learn how to lure my mark then lose them. I also have a hard time trying to decide where to throw the frisbee during a scrimmage and guarding. I also need to work on faking the mark out. ANy ideas how to work on each of these by myself or with a friend? Huh

*we did go to a oturnament and since i am at a lower level i really didn't paly much.  I tried watching the game but  don't hink i got alot out of it becuase either i watched the frisbee. how can i get the most out of the games? how can I get better at reading the field and movements?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2008, 10:02:58 PM by wlflover » Logged
Seppo
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008, 11:45:55 PM »

Hey wlflover,

Welcome to UltiTalk.  Smiley

Aside from finding a mentor who can give you some tips and help guide the progression of your game, I would suggest reading a book and watching some videos.  One book that is becoming a sort of "bible" among the Ultimate community is Ultimate Techniques & Tactics by James Parinella & Eric Zaslow (http://www.playulty.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=21).  I've read this book and it is chalk full of some very helpful tips for the beginner to the advanced player.

As for videos, UltiVillage puts out some great DVDs.  You can also see some sweet clips-of-the-day from their website (http://www.ultivillage.com).

Of course, there is nothing better than hands-on, personal training.  Find an advanced Ultimate player in your area and simply ask them for help.  I'm sure they would be happy to assist you and your game.

Good luck!

- Seppo #22
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rrudnic
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 09:23:20 AM »

Play as much as you can, when your not playing watch what good players are doing, when you aren't playing or watching read check out the-huddle.org
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ash_5
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2008, 05:58:30 AM »

play as much as you can...thats the easiest way in my belief and try and play with players that are of a high standard because they can watch and give you hints and tips, i know that works because i trained and played with my Mens team i know that ive improved out of sight since before i trained with them.

also try and have a disc with you where ever you go, i take mine to campus and everywhere with me and just practise my technique when im walkin around..look a little funny doing it though  Tongue
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AlecD
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« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2008, 02:03:39 AM »

In my experience, I've found tournaments have had the greatest influence on my learning the game and improving.

Training, scrimmages and league games are great for steady improvement, but for me it's been attending tournaments (decent quality though) where you can fast-track up your learning curve. At tourneys you get to watch, play with and play against a larger number of good players and get exposed to more ultimate, all in a short period of time.

That said, you still need all the other stuff (throwing and other practice especially) to bring you up to a level where you can get the most out of a tournament.

As seppo said, a mentor (i.e. captain or experienced player on one of your regular teams) is also great, especially if they challenge you and make you always want to do something better (i.e. can identify a need for, and encourage improvement in specific areas).
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Savage42
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2008, 02:53:30 PM »

Wlf, I was in your position a few years ago, where I loved the sport and wanted to get better, but I didn't have the opportunity to do so in a lot of the tournaments we went to. Luckily, I found another player around the same skill level, and we just started throwing to each other every chance we got, discussing what we thought would work and wouldn't work in games, and tried to figure out ways to get better. After 3 years of playing with him, we are now two of the top 3 players on the team.
Some of the different ways I tried to get better included everything that everyone above stated. However, I highly recommend just going out and throwing with a friend, any chance you get. You not only get to work on your throws, which you should work on all of your throws, but also it's a great way to bond with someone else on the team. Another idea is to find other schools and teams in the area that play and practice, when and where, and ask if you can join in. Most ultimate communities LOVE when more people show up, because it means more bodies. This is a great way to start to get to know others in the ulticommunity outside of your team, as well as get a new perspective on the game. One final thing that I've been telling the younger kids on our team, is to not watch the entire game when you're not playing, but only watch one player that plays a similar position as you. If you're a deep guy, watch the deep guy. If you're a popper, watch what the poppers are doing. It helps to watch the best player on the field as well, but they may be a completely different position than what you play. This is also a great way to learn different types of defense when you're struggling, especially with a zone you're unfamiliar with.
All in all, keep up the good work, continue to condition and work on your skills, and you'll improve. The game's all about having fun, so try and have some fun while doing it. When you're conditioning, focus on drills that will improve your ultiskills. There's a great article on the-huddle.org that would help you out.

Savage
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RayJ
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2008, 02:26:52 PM »

I am more of a recreational player (formerly pick up only) and by joining a local Rec league my knowledge and ability has gone up tremendously. There are players on tournament teams to help out, and it is more relaxed so everyone gets lots of playing time.

Of course this all depends on location, since I have the benefit of living in a big city with a Rec League, but if your city has one, I definitely suggest playing in that.
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Tenk283
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2008, 08:31:46 PM »

So I kinda just started playing but i reall want to get better. I know working on throws is really important and I am working on it but hat else can i do to get better? I run before pratice. I am getting a littl ebetter at cuts but I also need to learn how to lure my mark then lose them. I also have a hard time trying to decide where to throw the frisbee during a scrimmage and guarding. I also need to work on faking the mark out. ANy ideas how to work on each of these by myself or with a friend? Huh

*we did go to a oturnament and since i am at a lower level i really didn't paly much.  I tried watching the game but  don't hink i got alot out of it becuase either i watched the frisbee. how can i get the most out of the games? how can I get better at reading the field and movements?

Lure the mark then lose them?

Don't over think it. Go hard in one direction, then hard in the opposite. Always cut straight up and down the field. And remember to mix it up, don't always fake. Just cut straight in the direction you wanna go.

Try to feel what your defender is doing, if they overcommit on following a cut, turn and cut in the opposite direction. Even if you want to get a certain cut (ie, a deep cut or a shorter cut), don't be afraid to do the opposite if your defender overcommits. Everyone is dangerous if they have the disc for a few seconds with no marker (mostly because everyone has an ok long range backhand).

Also, you will get shut down occasionally, it happens to everyone. So if you make a cut and don't get it. Return to the stack (or whatever position you were playing and reset).

Throwing during games?

Thats easy.

Throw to the open person first chance you get (even if you hate them or they aren't particularly nice to you). If you don't get an open cutter, turn on stall 4 and look at your dump. Keep looking at them (never, ever look away) and when they get free, throw it to them. If the stall hits 8 and a half, throw it as far downfield as you can.

As you get more confident throwing that open pass, you will see more "open passes" become available on the field simply because you are used to it. Then one day, your "open pass" is a ridiculous break through three defenders. It takes time and practice though.

If it is a low pressure/scrimmage match, don't be afraid to force the borderline ones. Try and push yourself. In championship matches, stick to what you know you can do and never force it.

Guarding?

Which one? There is Guarding on the mark, and Guarding downfield.

Guarding on the mark, set your body so you are confident you can cover every throw to the breakside of the field. Let them have the openside. It also helps if you leave your arms out there. That way when they go to throw, you only need move your arm up or down to pressure the pass. Whereas if your arms where at your side, you would have to extend your arm, then move it up or down to pressure the pass.

Guarding downfield, set yourself depending on how quick you are. Always stand on the openside (the way the other team is being forced) and a little "underneath" (closer to the disc than your man is). Maintain a distance of 2m and never overcommit. If they cut in, maintain that distance. If they cut deep, haul ass and follow them, but maintain a distance that if it gets hucked, you can go get it, or if he cuts back under, you can keep that distance. The more atheletic you are, the less distance you need.

Faking out the mark?

You need only three basic fakes.

1) Throw Fake: Fake to throw
2) Pivot Fake: Pivot to one side then pivot back
3) Body Fake: Move your body as if you are about to pivot

Now, these are very powerful. Especially when your mark knows you have a weapon arm. Or they are trying to stop something deliberately (in most cases, a break throw)

Imagine this, you are marking a guy with a quick release that can huck 60m on either side and you are straight up.

He pivots to the backhand and does a throw fake (you cover it because he can huck 60m if you let him). Then he pivots back to the forehand. He then body fakes.

As a marker, you follow that fake believing it is another pivot. Because if he gets over that side and you aren't there to cover it..... 60m huck and score. Suddenly, you are massively out of position for the big forehand.

Practice them, you'll discover ways of mixing them up that will have markers laying out to cover your fakes whilst you throw easy passes. Make them believeable though, a fake is a throw that you do not let go. Your faking action should look no different to your throwing or pivoting action. You should be able to turn a fake into a throw, if the opportunity is there. Just as you should be able to turn a throw into a fake if the option is shut down.

As savage42 said, just throw with friends. Go join in with other teams. You can practise your fakes whilst throwing between two. Just like you can practise catching, jumping and laying out. Its just a matter of you choosing to do it.

And always have fun. Grin
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 08:35:14 PM by Tenk283 » Logged
ash_5
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 08:47:20 AM »


Don't over think it. Go hard in one direction, then hard in the opposite. Always cut straight up and down the field. And remember to mix it up, don't always fake. Just cut straight in the direction you wanna go.

Try to feel what your defender is doing, if they overcommit on following a cut, turn and cut in the opposite direction. Even if you want to get a certain cut (ie, a deep cut or a shorter cut), don't be afraid to do the opposite if your defender overcommits. Everyone is dangerous if they have the disc for a few seconds with no marker (mostly because everyone has an ok long range backhand).

Also, you will get shut down occasionally, it happens to everyone. So if you make a cut and don't get it. Return to the stack (or whatever position you were playing and reset).


Guarding?

Which one? There is Guarding on the mark, and Guarding downfield.

Guarding on the mark, set your body so you are confident you can cover every throw to the breakside of the field. Let them have the openside. It also helps if you leave your arms out there. That way when they go to throw, you only need move your arm up or down to pressure the pass. Whereas if your arms where at your side, you would have to extend your arm, then move it up or down to pressure the pass.

Guarding downfield, set yourself depending on how quick you are. Always stand on the openside (the way the other team is being forced) and a little "underneath" (closer to the disc than your man is). Maintain a distance of 2m and never overcommit. If they cut in, maintain that distance. If they cut deep, haul ass and follow them, but maintain a distance that if it gets hucked, you can go get it, or if he cuts back under, you can keep that distance. The more atheletic you are, the less distance you need.

Faking out the mark?

You need only three basic fakes.

1) Throw Fake: Fake to throw
2) Pivot Fake: Pivot to one side then pivot back
3) Body Fake: Move your body as if you are about to pivot

Now, these are very powerful. Especially when your mark knows you have a weapon arm. Or they are trying to stop something deliberately (in most cases, a break throw)

Imagine this, you are marking a guy with a quick release that can huck 60m on either side and you are straight up.

He pivots to the backhand and does a throw fake (you cover it because he can huck 60m if you let him). Then he pivots back to the forehand. He then body fakes.

As a marker, you follow that fake believing it is another pivot. Because if he gets over that side and you aren't there to cover it..... 60m huck and score. Suddenly, you are massively out of position for the big forehand.

Practice them, you'll discover ways of mixing them up that will have markers laying out to cover your fakes whilst you throw easy passes. Make them believeable though, a fake is a throw that you do not let go. Your faking action should look no different to your throwing or pivoting action. You should be able to turn a fake into a throw, if the opportunity is there. Just as you should be able to turn a throw into a fake if the option is shut down.

As savage42 said, just throw with friends. Go join in with other teams. You can practise your fakes whilst throwing between two. Just like you can practise catching, jumping and laying out. Its just a matter of you choosing to do it.

And always have fun. Grin

As for the cutting up and down the field, that's not always right...
i was taught that there were 2 rules to cutting:
1) Take what the opponent gives you, and
2) If they give you nothing then MAKE them give you something...

i like to stand facing my opponent, then when i inniate my cut i take a hard step DIRECTLY at them then choose the direction i want to cut in and that should give you a buffer but if it doesnt, then i usually cut back in the opposite direction...
sometimes i cut towards the break side because it is a threatening cut then if i dont get it i'll cut back to the open side..

as for the Guarding, Dan it's not always protect the Under, that is the case on a majority of teams but it really is a team by team basis because some teams may want them to proctect that deep threat if a player is constantly getting deep and making large yardage gains..

and as for the faking, try varying the heights of your throws...
like fake a high backhand then go low or vice versa...or same on the forehand side..
and i've been taught that a fake should is just a throw that you choose not to let go off at the last second...

good luck
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 01:54:43 PM »

Throw, Throw, Throw.
The more you throw- the better.

Talk, Talk, Talk.
Talk ultimate with your teammates, upperclassmen, anyone that will listen.

Watch, Watch, Watch.
Not just the seniors and upperclassmen. Watch other teams. Watch with your teammates. Ask them questions.

Realize what your team expects you to do, and do it. You're a young player.
You should not be expected to perform at the same level as an upperclassmen. 
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Tenk283
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« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2008, 10:50:06 PM »

Cheesy Hey ash.

I'm going to disagree with some of what you said there.... I was posting to get the basics down. Someone without the basics normally doesn't become as good as they could if they have a sound foundation.

Quote
1) Take what the opponent gives you, and
2) If they give you nothing then MAKE them give you something...

That is exactly right, take what you are given or make something happen. But the easiest way of doing that is to cut up and down the field vertically. Cutting sideways is a good way for one of four things to happen

1) Pass gets d'd
2) Pass gets layout D'd
3) Pass is thrown behind or too far in front
4) Pass is completed

25% is not a good bet.

So to reinforce the basics of cutting, you need to cut vertically.

You would know ash how hard it is to layout d a disc that a reciever is running straight towards. And to defender a reciever that runs through the catch. rusty (that other little fellow that plays for murdoch) got a sick layout d on one of our handlers because he stopped and let the disc come to him.

Quote
as for the Guarding, Dan it's not always protect the Under, that is the case on a majority of teams but it really is a team by team basis because some teams may want them to proctect that deep threat if a player is constantly getting deep and making large yardage gains..

here is the assumption:

Any given thrower will complete more short passes than long passes.
Any given thrower is more confident throwing short passes rather than long passes.

It is logical to assume that a short pass is a higher percentage throw than a long pass. there is another reason for that, a long pass is in the air longer than a short pass, giving the defense more time to position and make a play on the disc.

But the most consistent offensive option is a short pass. If you force the less consistent option, then you are playing smart defense.

as you say, this varies from team to team. So try to make it harder on your man, prevent him from doing what he wants. If he is running deep all the time, stand deeper than them.

Quote
and as for the faking, try varying the heights of your throws...
like fake a high backhand then go low or vice versa...or same on the forehand side..
and i've been taught that a fake should is just a throw that you choose not to let go off at the last second...

Predictability is what kills most players though. They have good fakes, but in the end they only have one throw for one situation.

Lets take Ash for example, ( Grin I had to pick on someone Cheesy )

To break the mark he has a uber-fast-and-low-flick-of-death.... But no pivot and backhand.

So whilst Ash may pivot fake to the backhand side, his preference is to throw that uber-fast-and-low-flick-of-death. As a marker, your job is to stop that throw, rather than a pivot and backhand.

Remember that, for both your throwing and your marking. try to think up more than 2 ways of completing any given pass. if you can throw a catchable pass three different ways in any given situation, then you've got some throws.

if you are on the mark and your man only has one throw in a given situation, put the pressure on it. i know i was trying to handblock Ash everytime because i knew he was either going to throw a forehand or a forehand break.... So I could pressure those passes by being more aggresive on the forehand side. Just like people know i will either throw a short open pass or a dump, they can pressure those passes and force turns.

to make a mistake is human. To get completely burned for a score, or to get handblocked or to throw incomplete.... these are all human things. The trick is to learn from these and to never let it happen ever again, if you can do that, you have the mind of a champion.
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ash_5
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 02:08:27 AM »

with cutting across field, its up to the handler to put it out in front, but im just saying, don't limit yourself to cutting up and down, because that does lead to becoming predictable

hey..i got lay out d's against you lads as well you know Tongue  and saying that...ALWAYS ATTACK THE DISC! either keep running at it or take it high (if its a bit lofty)

you'll find that each player has their own tendencies or go to throws, for me i do like that low fore-hand flick because it is a quick throw and it's hard for a mark to that low quickly but saying that, you must know that i am a shorter player (approx. 170cm tall) so i do prefer the low throw but i have improved my backhands since AUGs dan Smiley so dont go taking that i can only throw the low flick...
hahaha
also...am a massive fan of the hammer throw Grin

but with your guarding i always stay on my toes, nice and low and instead of watching a players face i watch their torso or their hips cause thats the point that theyre going to lead with...

I'll see you in Perth for Nats 08 Dan....or BC Invitational
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Tenk283
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 03:27:54 AM »

Ewww, if you are running sideways, you are just asking to be layout d'd or have the disc put behind you.

Running up and down is predictable, however it is more consistent than running sideways. And there is no need to be completely vertical with a good team. Once you start practicing and playing with good sides, you can flare your routes to allow maximum separation from your defender. Run more diagonal than up and down.

Quote
hey..i got lay out d's against you lads as well you know  Tongue  and saying that...ALWAYS ATTACK THE DISC! either keep running at it or take it high (if its a bit lofty)

Too right.

You looked good because recievers switched off. If you attack the disc, defenders will have less opportunity to knock it down. But if always attack the disc, you are part of the way there to becoming an incredibly reliable reciever.

Quote
you'll find that each player has their own tendencies or go to throws, for me i do like that low fore-hand flick because it is a quick throw and it's hard for a mark to that low quickly but saying that, you must know that i am a shorter player (approx. 170cm tall) so i do prefer the low throw but i have improved my backhands since AUGs dan  Grin so dont go taking that i can only throw the low flick...
hahaha

also...am a massive fan of the hammer throw

O_o You have other throws? I'll believe it when i see it. Grin

Hammers are a good way out of trouble. Especially if it is a calm day.

A hammer in the hands of an expert is unstoppable. Its nearly impossible to stop on the mark (it is thrown high and is hard to block) and is even harder to mark downfield when it could go to either the break side or the open side.

The real good players keep their tendencies low key, they do not let them take over their game and they control what they are doing. They pick the most high percentage throw/cut in a situation and as a result, complete/score more than the rest of us mere mortals.

I'll be lucky to get to perth ash, i might have another tourny to attend on the same weekend... Hopefully, i'll have another tourny to attend that weekend Cheesy . But there is always AUGs.... Queensland here we come!

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ash_5
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« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2008, 09:58:30 AM »

No I-Beam B team?
hell yes AUG's....best most loose week of my life...and i say that each time after i come back from one..
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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 06:00:30 PM »

Oh, we are definately trying to get together a B-beam.... i just have another tournament that i might be fortunate enough to attend overseas the same weekend as nats. pity that I have to choose.

Anyway,

The most effective way to get better, is to want to get better. to want to improve your game. If you get your mindset right, you are halfway there.... if you try to improve your game, it will happen, with time and effort.
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