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Author Topic: Uni ultimate - looking forward  (Read 66525 times)
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simmo
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« on: October 09, 2008, 12:49:51 AM »

I never got to organising that little conference I had my heart set on, but since a lot of uni folk post here I thought I'd get some discussion going. Two key areas, really.

Uni Games feedback

We had our official meeting at the fields, and I've had informal chats with a few folk, but I'd really like to hear feedback on anything and everything about your experience. From dealings with AFDA, AUS or your union, to the draw, the fields (SHIT!), the food, the parties, the Martin Laird Award...any aspect at all. AUG is such an important recruitment/development tool for our sport so I'm constantly looking for ways we can get it right, whatever "it" may be. If you can, ask some of your players that aren't as nerdy as the rest of us - the more feedback, the more improvement we can put in to 2009.

Post here, or if you'd prefer, shoot me an email - satalbot at gmail dot com.


The next 2-3 years

We're coasting along quite nicely, attracting 20-odd teams to AUG each year. But we should be pushing further to get our sport out there. Where should our priorities be?
- More new teams?
- Clubs bringing A and B squads?
- Two divisions?
- Uni leagues in each state?

My personal view: I think we should be starting to look at two divisions sooner rather than later. That way we can have teams playing against their own standard more often. Let's say next year we have 26 teams - we can't have the one division and expect to have non-lopsided games beyond Day 2. I think if we are looking at more than 20-22 teams next year we should seriously consider a Division 1 of 14-16 teams, with the rest in Division 2. Of course this opens up a lot more questions - how do we decide which div teams go to? Promotion/relegation?

I'd also like to see more clubs engaging in long term planning. Instead of operating from event to event, have the whole year planned out. I'm going to start getting in cahoots with the TDs of regular tournaments quite soon so by O-Week next year, we can have the calendar for the season worked out, so teams can plan accordingly.


I'll probably add a lot more stuff to this thread later, but there's something to start from.
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littletom
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2008, 01:04:41 AM »

Like the Soccer at the Olympics, each team should be allowed three 'over-age' players, so that I can play. Tongue

Man, not playing uni ultimate and having an off-season is killing my fitness

The Sydney teams need to learn how to drive a car for periods of time longer than 1 hour and make it to IVs outside of Sydney. Their laziness disgusts me. Discuss.

I suppose you can start the 2 division process by getting teams to self-elect. From there I suppose it will be easiest to use subjective methods to determine where teams should play if one division is oversubscribed.

Btw, would having two divisions mean two sets of medals?

-Tom
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simmo
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« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2008, 01:27:22 AM »

Btw, would having two divisions mean two sets of medals?
Yes. Only one G&G team though.
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thebozzman
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« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2008, 03:36:07 AM »

Alrighty, Uni Stuff!

Well I know my first port of call is to figure out how to get into one subject, drop out just before census date and STILL be elligible for Uni Games Wink

CSU Bathurst had an AGM overnight and have elected a new Exec for 2009 and started to set some priorities. Having 2 teams at Uni Games ISN'T one, but attending Uni Games is!!!

* I know that when the talk of 2 Divs started, there was a lot of negative talk about it. But with Ultimate moving along well, maybe the time is right to do it now. (especially with Uni's talking about sending 2 teams!)
* I really like the idea of Uni Leagues and more intervaristy competitions. Oshep's idea from a few years ago "The Ivy League" was awesome, but never got put in to practice. The Uni Leagues can assist with seeding and are essentially more formalised scrimages (but with running tally's and what not)
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suj
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« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2008, 04:07:16 AM »

Hopefully UTS has done enough this year with getting the new kids involved in the admin/exec side of things so that they can carry on next year where Rosie, Mel and myself have graduated, Tom's still in Melbourne for the 1st semester and Henry's being a lazy douche. The only 'old' kid still in the vicinity is Evan, and so far he's done a good job of getting a handful or randoms to commit to the upcoming league.

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JMc
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« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008, 04:26:59 AM »

We fought against 2 divisions hardcore last year, and after kicking up a fuss and having a few people put in some hard work, got a result (1 div).

I feel that with continued growth, it's probably the best option. However, let's make sure we think about it... and make sure we don't do it the stupid AUS way (where, from memory, the top div is 6-8 teams and div 2 is everyone else), which doesn't suit the high turnover and year-to-year changes in uni Ultimate (top div is too small).

I'm iffy about it just because of how big the changes can be between years with different unis... e.g. Flinders 07/08 (12th/1st), UQ 08/09 (AWOL/1st... there's an early tip, kids ;-) ), Adelaide 07/08 (14/3), etc etc etc... ANU 07/08, UNSW and UTas 08/09 potentially, LTU 07/08...

So yeah, I'm concerned about the difficulty of splitting the divs appropriately... it has to be an objective system like Nats/Mixed Nats, I believe, but I don't think this will work well at uni level...

My 2c. If that can be solved, I think 2 divs makes sense.
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Twig
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« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008, 05:09:35 AM »

WA is implementing a university ultimate league next year and have convinced Tertiary Sports WA to count that as the AUG 'qualifier' instead of a one off poorer quality tournament.  the league is going to be based around 2 or 3 major mixed tournaments already in place as well as the addition of a few that will be created especially for uni teams.  This comes off the back of having three teams compete at AUG for the first time and with luck UWA maybe being able to put two teams into this league even if only one team makes it to the games.

I'll keep all informed of how we go but i consider it a good path for all uni's (esp in places with limited opportunities to play as a uni team)
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simmo
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« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008, 08:13:41 AM »

There's been some talk of a similar league in Victoria, running NUFL style over three weekends. The trouble we had was teams taking until mid-year to work out who was running the show, with many club leaders off at Worlds.

JMc my thinking behind a Division 2 would be that new teams (or teams full of new players, a la QUT) would be in a less intense and more socially oriented division. While Div 1 teams would face the normal draw (9-11 games), Div 2 would play a shortened draw - maybe 6 or 7 games. Obviously we'd need to work out a system that determines who plays in what division - whether we have a seeding system, a promotion/relegation system, or even a criteria (eg: Div 2 teams can't have more than three Nationals players...something like that).
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gref
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008, 08:34:27 AM »

Obviously we'd need to work out a system that determines who plays in what division - whether we have a seeding system, a promotion/relegation system, or even a criteria (eg: Div 2 teams can't have more than three Nationals players...something like that).

That's a dangerous policy to follow, unless you mean to say that all teams with 3+ Nationals players are automatically Div 1 (Which has its own problems).

2 Divisions would be good, the question of how to rate them though clearly remains the issue. Perhaps the various Challenges can become a little more compulsary, so that objective results can be gained on the strength of a team from year to year.
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thebozzman
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2008, 08:35:38 AM »

even a criteria (eg: Div 2 teams can't have more than three Nationals players...something like that).

But what constitutes a nationals player? Am I a nationals player as I picked up last year for a team? Or is a nationals player someone who plays for a team that finishes within a certain percentage of the competition? (I.E in the top 50% of teams involved?)
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DaveR
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2008, 09:23:09 AM »

The Sydney teams need to learn how to drive a car for periods of time longer than 1 hour and make it to IVs outside of Sydney. Their laziness disgusts me. Discuss.

Hey! Sydney played in IV's in Newcastle, Canberra and Bathurst (first two we won we won while our 2 teams finsihed second and third at Stampede) and held its own IV early in the year (which no out od Syndey team attended other than CSU), plus a pre Uni games lead up scrimmage day. UTS did 2 of the 3. But outside of that....the other frisbee clubs struggled to exist

The problem with the Sydney teams this year is that apart from Usyd and to a lesser extent UTS, the clubs kinda cru,bled largely due to personell changes, and didnt have the organsisational capacity to form teams, let alone go to tournaments. This was a big change over year for the Sydney teams, with Mac and UNSW undrgoing huge change (sydney having underrgone a large personnel change last year). To be honest we are lucky because we have quite a large infastructure (comparitivly).

Id say that Sydney may very well have the capacity to enter an A and B team next year, with an influx of some juniors, not to many losses, with many of the current crop likley to do honours/postgrad and hang around despite being in their last year....while Brett Latham may continue to take credit poitn a year even after he has completed his course requirements to hang around into infinity.

Surely frisbee people are pretty good at working out what teams will be in the top...did anyone think that the top 9 at uni games was gonna have anything other than the teams it had?
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pookie
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2008, 05:53:55 PM »

If you actually know more something about Australian ultimate, sorting the divisions will be 95% easy.

And I wasn't talking about USyd when I was having a go at the Sydney Unis. Tongue

Four years ago we had 12 teams at shenanigans and we lose about 2 every year. Sad It also doesn't help that UCan has died in the arse, Piers used his personal influence to drag teams there and we now have to compete with the Stampede Sad
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thebozzman
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2008, 06:25:07 PM »

and we now have to compete with the Stampede Sad

They are months apart... May & August...

I wouldn't say CSU fell apart because of the change of people running it, we just couldn't retain females. After stopping and thinking, we have ONE new player for 2008 (which is pretty sad and disappointing!!) and CSU as a team particpated in only the Stampede, Shenanigans and Midwinter Solstice. Our worst year since we formed in 2004 (even then we made 3 tournies and had a shit load of new players  Wink )
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Henry
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2008, 06:48:49 PM »

I think the 2 divisions thing might not be a bad idea but I wouldn't do it on seeding etc.  I'd let anyone who wants to play in the top division play there (maybe 75% to 80% of the teams would do this?) and have a division 2 for the teams that are all new players or have maybe never touched a disc in their life.

My reasoning behind this is generally you only get better by playing against better teams, and while I don't think UTS would've 'qualified' for a spot in the top division if it was divided this year (we didn't win a single game at ECCs) I think that playing against quality teams has definitely improved our game and made the competition more enjoyable.  Even though we ended up finishing 13th (2 up from seeding! YAY!) I'm fairly sure there was only one game where we lost by more than 5 points (monash).  We even kept the score reasonably tight against the eventual bronze medal team (AU).

So definitely have the marjority of teams in the main division, but maybe have another competition for people that just want to go to uni games?
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simmo
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2008, 08:14:02 PM »

Ok, two questions for all...

- How many clubs are having an AGM before the end of the year?
- How many clubs will have their 2009 committee appointed before the end of the year.

Ballarat is a yes on both accounts.
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