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Author Topic: Uni ultimate - looking forward  (Read 58568 times)
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ash_5
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« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2008, 02:50:10 AM »

I think with the other sports at AUGs the teams nominate whether or not they would prefer to be part of Div 1 or Div 2 and then their sports officer decides on whether or not that is possible, and also if the team from the previous year won Div 2 then they are automatically promoted to Div 1..

I like the idea of 2 divisions as it would help increase uni ultimate greatly but i just see that one problem, making sure that each team gets placed in the right division..

also the 2 division structure can help unis in their recruitment, because i know that the whole "Uni Games" atmosphere is a really big draw card and Unis that can put in 2 teams would prosper, because their A team would be competing for gold and their B team would most likely be for development and their for a great week of fun...

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gref
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« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2008, 02:57:20 AM »

The problem with having lots of IVs as the method of ranking, is that in south east Queensland for example, we only have 3 universities, and a 3 team tournament doesn't really get your appetite going.

Normally we take advantage of local IVs to get 3 UQ teams in, a couple of teams from local leagues, a massive Griffith team, and hopefully a massive QUTies team. That way we can actually have a fairly large tournament, have fun, and introduce new people to tournaments.

If playing at those IVs directly affected our seed at Unigames, you'd find there are only 3 teams, UQ will have a stacked team full of all the people who might not end up making it to unigames anyway, and it would be a lame tournament.

Most students also don't have the time or money to go play IVs in other parts of the country where tournaments might actually be large and competitive.

UQ will however be sending a team to ECC again, you can be fairly sure, probably with a similar mix of beginning players, internationals and UQ stalwarts.



Don't get me wrong though, I also think 2 divisions could be great. I just am not sure IVs is the way to do it...
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simmo
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« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2008, 03:05:01 AM »

Ash is on the money - teams in other sports get to nominate what division to go in. However medal winners from Div1 have to put forward a very strong case if they want to be relegated.

IM ever so HO, we should only look at two divisions if we get more than 24 teams. Mixed Nats shows us that a 24 team draw on 10 fields can be done quite easily over 3 days (so 5 isn't a problem), so I'd say that's the maximum we should have in one division. If we somehow have 28 teams next year, I'd definitely put 2 divisions in place, but each team can choose which division they go in.
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simmo
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« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2008, 03:09:27 AM »

Most students also don't have the time or money to go play IVs in other parts of the country where tournaments might actually be large and competitive.
I think a large component of this problem is lack of planning by tournament organisers and club committees. Hopefully we'll have the whole 2009 uni season calendar in place by January, so clubs can have an idea of what tournaments they'll be going to before O-Week rolls around. That way players can then commit accordingly - some players might be keen for roadies, some might only commit to local shindigs.

But then we'd be relying on uni students to have time/money management skills, and we're back at square one Tongue
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ash_5
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« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2008, 03:17:16 AM »

@ Gref: I think the way the things are going to be working in terms of IV here in the west is that we hold our annual tourneys,
like UWA has their Winter Solstice, Murdoch has our Triple D and each Uni team wishing to go to AUGs has to enter these IVs but to make sure its not just the same 3 or 4 teams competing it is open to other teams to put a team in...
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Tenk283
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« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2008, 05:39:49 AM »

I think with the other sports at AUGs the teams nominate whether or not they would prefer to be part of Div 1 or Div 2 and then their sports officer decides on whether or not that is possible, and also if the team from the previous year won Div 2 then they are automatically promoted to Div 1..

I like the idea of 2 divisions as it would help increase uni ultimate greatly but i just see that one problem, making sure that each team gets placed in the right division..

also the 2 division structure can help unis in their recruitment, because i know that the whole "Uni Games" atmosphere is a really big draw card and Unis that can put in 2 teams would prosper, because their A team would be competing for gold and their B team would most likely be for development and their for a great week of fun...



Dude.

The first thing I did was I went off and found out how the other sports do it  Cheesy Grin Cheesy . Nice thinking Ash!

It seems we are united on the "IVs for seeding" idea is unworkeable. I think the way they do it in other sports seems resonable. Teams like ECU should be encouraged into the top division. All the emphasis should be placed on the first division being the place to be. Div 2 should be for the teams that simply don't have the strength. The teams that have the strength but not neccesarily the drive (a la any team that wants to have a "development year) should be put in div 1.

I agree with simmo though. We should only go to two division when the comp goes past 24teams. I like playing with everyone. I never liked the whole segregation thing....
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JMc
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« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2008, 05:53:50 AM »

Can we have a voting system to kick teams down to the bottom division? Like, you split your divs as usual, and then every captain gives up to 3 votes to teams that they really just can't stand... top voted team(s) get(s) the shaft.

Those Ballarat chumps... I'm looking at you, Pissy...







Yes, I am kidding.
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DaveR
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« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2008, 06:04:01 AM »

Its not really segregation, its actually probably more helpful for some teams.

It was unproductive for team like QUT (this year..no disrespect meant) to play very good teams. While playing against good teams can be a great learning curve, it is only helpful when done in a productive manner. You dont learn very much being bagelled, turning it straight away and then getting scored on again...having the game over in 30 minutes or soemthing. Its also not very enjoyable.

I think of the example of my sisters UTS netball team last year who ahd the misfortune to be placed in the top division as a party team. They lost every game by over 100 points....in netball!!!..where a goals is worth 1 point...and it only goes for 60 minutes!!!!

For example, UTS at ECC probably learned alot across that tournament, depite not winning a game. But if QUT (of this year) and Wollongong had to play in a top division....totally pointless. Your better off playing more competitive games against opposition more your own standard and actially getting to work on your offence and defence. Thus the entire division can improve as a cohort, and aim for the improvement of division 1, while still having medals to aim for as well.

Thats is of course as long as teams are correctly placed...it would be a travesty if UQ for example ended up in div 2 on the basis of non participation...but the ability to nominate and the fairly good cross section of knwoledge of people in our community should prevent this from being a major issue.

Can we have a voting system to kick teams down to the bottom division? Like, you split your divs as usual, and then every captain gives up to 3 votes to teams that they really just can't stand... top voted team(s) get(s) the shaft.

Those Ballarat chumps... I'm looking at you, Pissy...

Simmo...you are the weakest link...goodbye (torch extinguished as simmo is evicted into a crowd of screaming teenage girls to the first time in his life...then is asked by zoo to get his...urghh...no..not going there)
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simmo
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« Reply #38 on: October 11, 2008, 06:38:07 AM »

Can we have a voting system to kick teams down to the bottom division? Like, you split your divs as usual, and then every captain gives up to 3 votes to teams that they really just can't stand... top voted team(s) get(s) the shaft.

Those Ballarat chumps... I'm looking at you, Pissy...
AUS Seeding Policy dictates that teams who did not attend the previous AUG get seeded in a random order at the bottom of the list of teams who did attend last year. Looks like UQ are 20th at best. Unlucky.

Yes, I am kidding.
Too late. You've upset me now.

My left heel is still sore, by the way.
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JMc
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« Reply #39 on: October 11, 2008, 11:25:32 AM »

Unlucky for those who're looking for the 20th seed to be a rest game...

I'm still a little surprised you did it, really. Was fairly impressed by your lack of instant reaction though, I will admit (your reflexes may possibly have been a little dulled at that point).
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Tenk283
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« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2008, 08:25:16 PM »

O_o

Newcastle didn't attend last year and where seeded 4th this year....

Unlucky Jmc, looks like your back up the top of the table Wink Grin
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Jangles
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« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2008, 01:35:19 AM »

i love how QUT is the example team. I will point out that they made it too the hour mark in all their games. not bad for an average of 3 months experience.

As for 2 divisions i did tell pissy my views during uni games and i have been putting some thought into how to do a draw where by the top team or team(s) in div 2 could go up to play div 1 teams but it gets very complicated if you start talking about medals and stuff so i think the plan would be to get teams to nominate and give pissy a headache before he starts drinking.

A good idea is for teams to look back and see what they would have nominated in previous years and from there as QUT would have gone Div 2 in '06, Div 1 '07 (mike helps), and Div 2 '08. Next year isnt looking too promising from a QUT point of view with our remaining Nats players all graduating. Lets hope they sort out our fields soon.
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thebozzman
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« Reply #42 on: October 13, 2008, 01:44:18 AM »

I think we should definately get the "East Coast Ivy League" cracking. Mac, Usyd, UTS, Newcastle, Bathurst. There are 5 teams and locations for IVs. All of which are accessible by train or car. The only problem is funding. Most teams are full of poor uni students and can't afford to be galloping around the country around Nats and whatever other tournaments. Ideally, we would be able to pick up another team (or many teams) to play.

I think perhaps we have 5, 1 day IVs hosted by each uni. 4 games in a day, 20 games in total (which is a pretty good season of any sport). All game results are tabulated. MVP and MSP points are recorded. At the end of the "EC Ivy League", all the captains vote where the final should be held (ie, at the place with the best fields, the best run tournament and easiest for your team to get too). Then the final is held a week or two before AUGs. 1st vs 2nd, 3rd vs 4th with 5th earning the wooden spoon. Each tournament should cost about $20 each. I ran an IV with 5 teams at $20, Tarn did one with 4 teams at something ridiculous like $11 each Grin (nice work tarn).

The important thing is getting commitment from each of the teams to show up at each of the 5 IVs. Simmo, i need to speak with you about some dates for this so they won't clash. Also so it will make it easy on all the lil' uni students to afford (including myself).

From a regional Uni's perspective, having to travel to 4 times is a little bit much for us. 3 Sydney and 1 Newcastle adds up. An idea could be to have at least 2 of the Sydney ones on the same weekend. I.E 1 Day Usyd, 1 day UTs.

You can't really count the Stampede as an IV either. It is open to all teams and you don't always play everyone (unless numbers dramtically drop to Shenanigan levels).

I like the idea, just need to keep refining it until it's workable. Dan, it's best to contact Hari as you may be encroaching on his gig a lil...
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simmo
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« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2008, 02:36:59 AM »

I'm doing up a formal proposal now. Bozza's right - five is too many. Currently working on having 3 events.
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suj
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« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2008, 03:11:25 AM »

hrm uts doesn't have fields, or a campus Cry
the closest we have is wentworth park and the fields are shoddy/crap/dustbowls. actually they're pretty similar to the usyd fields we recently had the uts-suufa-mac-newie scrimmages on. but once the '09 uts admin crew is sorted out, i'm sure they could be convinced to host something, somewhere.

also maybe mac can host one because they have fields, and unsw can host one because it'll help get them back on the unigames train.
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omg i'm in so much pain...my knees hurt
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