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Author Topic: Forehand Dump?  (Read 26387 times)
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joeschmidt
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« on: March 15, 2009, 10:40:34 PM »

I'm having trouble with a forehand dump pass, it is very difficult for me to throw a short range forehand without it being extremely wobbly. Does anyone have any advice on this topic?

Also with the backhand it is very easy to throw a disk straight up in the air with lots of spin, and this seems to be a good dump pass for me, where I just add a straight up air throw with a little forward momentum. The forehand grip makes it almost impossible, so this is a second related question I have.

Thanks for any help!
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Tenk283
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2009, 07:51:58 AM »

 Grin DON"T DUMP FOREHAND!!!!  Grin

Hopefully that answers your questions.

Throw a backhand, or a lefty backhand or at worst, a push pass. Try to avoid a forehand at a range of less than 5m.... Impossible to throw a dump.

(possible to throw an upthe line <5m though....)

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rrudnic
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2009, 09:26:43 AM »

Learn to throw a sick nasty wrap around high release backhand behind your defenders head.
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s0urce
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2009, 01:09:24 PM »

Grin DON"T DUMP FOREHAND!!!!  Grin


Huh, really?  Why wouldn't you throw a forehand dump if your bail is there laterally on your force side?  If there's defensive pressure, than what rudnic said, throw a with some o/i curve.

to help with wobbly short-range flicks, work on your wrist snap some more.  Practice throwing flicks using nothing but your hand.  Keep your arm stationary and work on just getting the snap.

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jpopp009
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 03:52:32 PM »

I throw my forehand at that distance all the time and it rarely wobbles try using more wrist flick.
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wally
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2009, 05:50:40 AM »

Yeah I think it's all about working on your wrist flick with those short forehands.

Having said that, I struggle with my short forehands still, and opt for the push pass over very short distances.
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rrudnic
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 09:22:10 AM »

I try to never throw flicks that short, its just a bad idea. They are either wobbly, or get on the dump to fast, or float, or are low. A really short flick like that is one of the hardest throws to make consistently. If your dump is within 5 yds on that side I'd say he's doing a shitty job as the dump. When I set up for a dump on that flick I stretch it out more. 
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Tiger
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 11:18:25 AM »

Grin DON"T DUMP FOREHAND!!!!  Grin

Hopefully that answers your questions.

Throw a backhand, or a lefty backhand or at worst, a push pass. Try to avoid a forehand at a range of less than 5m.... Impossible to throw a dump.

(possible to throw an upthe line <5m though....)



Don't try and teach newer players wrong on purpose just because you're a spastic.

While it might be true that a short, stable forehand is a hard pass, it's not hard enough that it requires reinventing the wheel - in the absolute majority of cases and conditions, it's probably an easier and more viable route to practice short stable forehands rather than try to achieve a game-ready offhand backhand or push pass.

Joeschmidt, I would advise really just concentrating on wrist snap and experimenting with different grips for the forehand dump pass. Idris once said that every player should have a three or four finger under the rim forehand grip to use in this situation; see if that works for you.
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simmo
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 07:48:53 PM »

What the hell is your dump doing within 5 yards of you? Tell them to step off.

Two things to do...
- Pivot backwards and low so your entire body is between the mark and the disc.
- Throw with your wrist only. No arm.

Takes A LOT of practice to get right, because I guarantee that throwing from your back foot will make you throw it straight into the ground the first 20 times. Throw from low (around knee height) and put some I/O on it out into space for your dump to run on to.

But seriously, tell your dump to back off. 10 yards minimum.
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Tenk283
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 01:09:48 AM »

Grin DON"T DUMP FOREHAND!!!!  Grin

Hopefully that answers your questions.

Throw a backhand, or a lefty backhand or at worst, a push pass. Try to avoid a forehand at a range of less than 5m.... Impossible to throw a dump.

(possible to throw an upthe line <5m though....)



Don't try and teach newer players wrong on purpose just because you're a spastic.

While it might be true that a short, stable forehand is a hard pass, it's not hard enough that it requires reinventing the wheel - in the absolute majority of cases and conditions, it's probably an easier and more viable route to practice short stable forehands rather than try to achieve a game-ready offhand backhand or push pass.

Joeschmidt, I would advise really just concentrating on wrist snap and experimenting with different grips for the forehand dump pass. Idris once said that every player should have a three or four finger under the rim forehand grip to use in this situation; see if that works for you.

Oh aye...

Not sure what you've been doing whilst playing ultimate. Pretty sure most turnovers around the dump area come from a dodgy pass forced into a tight area. Easiest way of reducing turnovers is using a higher percentage pass into a higher percentage area.

Ever dropped a dump pass tiger? You're a handler, surely you've experienced the bullet forehand dump pass. Anyway, comes down to personal ability. People who know tiger also know that his forehand is one of the craziest throws and he has a massive amount of control over what the disc actually does. When I mean massive amount, I mean way more than some of the best. But for most mortals that don't have the control and can't actually develop it alternatives need to be developed for the forehand situation. I mean, physically can't. I'm left handed and I throw right handed. Thus, my right wrist is weaker with less finer motor control. Many people will have similar reasons.

Also, while you are learning, you need ways around your lack of skill. I couldn't throw, so I dumped on stall 1 until I could throw. Nowadays, I dump on stall 3 and a 1/2. Otherwise you turn the disc at a rate disproportional to your actual playing ability.

Need I go further?

onto what simmo is talking about: its a throw you need. But generally it only works at distances over 10yds... Otherwise the disc does weir things, or the dump just can't catch it. That throw starts low, goes not very far, the back edge of the disc is pointing towards the ground (atleast a 45degree angle on it) and doesn't fly for very long because it ends up sliding backwards or sidewards through the air. However, I was taught to throw mine O/I to make sure it doesn't slide sidewards...

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BJ
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 01:38:17 AM »

tiger? disc control? forehand?
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simmo
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2009, 07:22:07 AM »

onto what simmo is talking about: its a throw you need. But generally it only works at distances over 10yds... Otherwise the disc does weir things, or the dump just can't catch it. That throw starts low, goes not very far, the back edge of the disc is pointing towards the ground (atleast a 45degree angle on it) and doesn't fly for very long because it ends up sliding backwards or sidewards through the air. However, I was taught to throw mine O/I to make sure it doesn't slide sidewards...

It doesn't do any of that over a few metres. It's called "throwing with touch". It's all about putting spin on the disc so it travels a short distance slowly, but stays stable. Of course it fades sideways, but if your dump is only 5 metres away (which they shouldn't be) it won't have time to fade away. There's no need for heaps of I/O, only a little bit, so it flies about 20 degrees away from flat. I/O throws sit up better than O/I.
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rrudnic
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2009, 09:21:13 AM »



I'm left handed and I throw right handed. Thus, my right wrist is weaker with less finer motor control.

[/quote]

Much worse than trying to throw a super short flick dump is the fact that your wasting one of the greatest advantages in ultimate. Why in gods name would you be wasting your lefthandedness? Lefty's with good throws are like 10 times more desireable for a team than righties with good throws. 
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The Brucemaster
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« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2009, 01:29:36 AM »

I think the general summary is:

1) Your dump should not be 5 yards away

2) Practice your wrist flick so that you have more control of your forehands over short distance.

3) Add some outside-in so that it sits up a bit

4) Tiger is God of the Forehand.... All hail His Ranganess...
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Tenk283
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« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2009, 04:19:18 AM »



I'm left handed and I throw right handed. Thus, my right wrist is weaker with less finer motor control.


Much worse than trying to throw a super short flick dump is the fact that your wasting one of the greatest advantages in ultimate. Why in gods name would you be wasting your lefthandedness? Lefty's with good throws are like 10 times more desireable for a team than righties with good throws. 
[/quote]

I'm ambidexterous... I do different things with different hands. Write lefthanded, kick a ball right footed, throw a ball left handed. I became that way because i'm a dominate left hander and have had to deal with "society's right handedness".. First night of ultimate, I could throw equally bad with both hands and I was told to pick one. I just picked right... Now i'm trying to develop the left handed throws. Because I discovered the same thing... Left handed throwers are a sweet thing to have. Ambidexterous throwers would be gold. IF they are good. Otherwise they are just a chump that can turn the disc over with two hands, rather than one  Grin .

Quote from: simmo
It doesn't do any of that over a few metres. It's called "throwing with touch". It's all about putting spin on the disc so it travels a short distance slowly, but stays stable. Of course it fades sideways, but if your dump is only 5 metres away (which they shouldn't be) it won't have time to fade away. There's no need for heaps of I/O, only a little bit, so it flies about 20 degrees away from flat. I/O throws sit up better than O/I.

Hmm, lets clarify something...

When I think of a "dump" pass, its a really short pass over less than 10m... Anything greater is a swing pass or a throw to the "flat" for my thinking. So when I say "don't throw a forehand dump", i mean: if the player is really close, use something else.

Throwing with touch is easy, its something every can and should learn. I'm talking about a pass that flies about 5m and goes no further. Its a cool throw and has a bit to do with wrist control. But I need to be able to throw to a spot, I can't hit a reciever with it without chopping them in half.
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