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Author Topic: Changing the Nationals Draw  (Read 18692 times)
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Tanty
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« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2009, 02:57:10 AM »

Having said all this, I have absolutely no talent, understanding or comprehension of how draws should work, other than that I'm always on the team that ends up on the wrong end of one.

Noone remembers when the draw works for them... only when it doesn't
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Meegs
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 06:09:34 PM »

However, ten was rather unreasonable. 

I think that until women's ultimate grows and therefore, number of members on a team grows, ten is too many games. Especially since very few games finished before time cap because most of the ladies games didn't get to 17 and then you have to add the two points to highest score.  This resulted in seriously long days.  One solution then would be to play slightly shorter games or to a lower points cap.

I also think the women's draw was a bit sucky because every result had the potential to count but not all the results did.  Given the average seedings, it meant that you may have carried through a loss to a team that went into your crossover pool but didn't get a benefit of a win you had against a team that went to a different cross over pool.  There was clearly four top teams at nats but for those battling for 5-11, it was a bit of a mess. 

I think ten seems reasonable now because the tournament's over and I don't have to play those games again! But now that you mention it, we did have some ridiculous games...We went 20 minutes over time in our KAOS game on the first day and then immediately had to play Sultry, which also went 20 min over time, which basically equalled 4 hours straight playing. Somehow I'd managed to block that out!

I don't think all the women's teams had too few players though. We certainly did, but most teams seemed to have 16-18, which is enough for ten games I think.
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Skippy
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« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2009, 03:26:46 AM »

And not all teams had ten games.
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JdR
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2009, 06:05:15 PM »

If you have enough fields to have only a few timeslots (like say 8.30am, 11.30am and 3pm), then 10 games is fine, because the breaks are large and consistent.  But for something like that you need 16 fields.

If you only have 8-9 fields, then you're looking at 4-5 timeslots meaning less breaks (no matter how hard you try to balance byes), so there probably needs to be slightly less games.
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Jangles
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2009, 10:31:09 PM »

I am quite happy to discuss/create new draws.

I am leaning towards a draw committee to have a look at various options and put it to a vote??

My ideal set up would be 2 pools of 8 (7 games)
Quarters,Semis,Finals. (or pre semis, Final - Reward for finishing top of your pool)

Everyone plays 10 games?? Make the top 4 in your pool have a shot at the Finals.

I am sure then the call would be  "TOO MANY GAMES!!!!"

My response would be "Have a bigger squad and blood a few more Intermediate players in the "easier" games"

Anyhow, If you would be keen to look at various variations drop me an email.


There was a draw similar to this used at AUG in 2007, but with 20 teams and dodgy seeding. I remember some incredibly vocal opponents to that draw.

The main problem was the fact that 7 of the top 10 teams were in one pool. when you are unlucky and loose tight games and then come to your cross over and win 15-1 it kinda suxs.

Having said all this, I have absolutely no talent, understanding or comprehension of how draws should work, other than that I'm always on the team that ends up on the wrong end of one.

Noone remembers when the draw works for them... only when it doesn't
I agree But i don't remember a draw ever working for me (Other than AUG '06 where we got the last day off out of sympathy). Buggers '06, and then firestorm '07 '08 Dens mentioned them all.
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littletom
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« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2009, 01:00:10 AM »

What would you consider a draw that works for you Jangles?

As some one that has been on 1st, 4th, 5th (?), 11th seeded teams for the past four nationals, I have been happy with the draws since 2006.

-I don't think the top seeds have unfair advantages
-I think the cusp pool system gives the greatest opportunity for different regions to prove their ability
-I think that the trend towards putting more games in a tournament will result in a high turnover, slug-fest, lower skill and less-professional looking game at the tournaments end.
-Any two pool draw runs the risk of lopsided pools, a la AUGs 2007, Women's nats 2009. Thus I am totally against them.

I argue for the status-quo
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Jangles
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« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2009, 08:58:58 PM »

Quote
What would you consider a draw that works for you Jangles?

Any draw that doesn't end your hopes on the first day. Next year should hopefully better for firestorm as we have a decent seed now.
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Twig
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« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2009, 07:55:53 AM »

hey Jangles but is it really fair that a team that drops out on the first day gets to play 'easier' teams for two days to then play teams that have fought it out for the top.  I know Sublime had bigger problems than just tiredness but after we lost our pre-semi it is safe to say that we were too [email protected]#ked to care...
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simmo
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« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 09:51:21 AM »

If you can't win all your games on day one, why should you be national champions?
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rodes
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« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2009, 02:39:41 AM »

If you can't win all your games on day one, why should you be national champions?

Hear hear!
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