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Author Topic: When can a marker start stall count?  (Read 31704 times)
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AncientPC
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« on: June 05, 2009, 06:11:41 PM »

The UPA rules are a bit unclear (or at least I can't find the specific info).

1) The rules imply when the marker is within 3m, is that correct?  I've always started when I'm within 1m.

2) On a turnover, sometimes the offensive player will stand over the disc waiting for their team to set up.  Is this allowed or can the marker start the count once they're over the disc?
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Shaunie81
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« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2009, 08:10:46 PM »

1.) Within 3 metres of the player with the disc.

2.) (I may be wrong on this one) I believe you can start counting once the player stands over the disc.
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rrudnic
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 11:02:48 AM »

I always start my stall as soon as I'm within 10ft, 3m and 10 ft basically the same thing.
You can NOT start stalling if he's standing over the disc. He has to have posession of the disc for you to stall aka be holding it. You can prestall like a pull though. I'm not sure how long hes allowed to stand there though, the rules probably say something like a reasonable time.
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Shaunie81
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 09:40:45 PM »

Going through the rules, this is something that I found;

Quote from: WFDF Rules of Ultimate 2009
8.6. After a turnover, the team that has gained possession of the disc must continue play
without delay. The intended thrower must move at walking pace or faster to directly
retrieve the disc and establish a pivot.
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Tenk283
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 08:01:00 AM »

I always start my stall as soon as I'm within 10ft, 3m and 10 ft basically the same thing.
You can NOT start stalling if he's standing over the disc. He has to have posession of the disc for you to stall aka be holding it. You can prestall like a pull though. I'm not sure how long hes allowed to stand there though, the rules probably say something like a reasonable time.

You are technically right.

Quote
9. Stall Count
9.1. The marker administers a stall count on the thrower by announcing “Stalling” and then
counting from one (1) to ten (10). The interval between the start of each word in the
stall count must be at least one (1) second.
6
9.2. The stall count must be clearly audible to the thrower.
9.3. The marker may only start a stall count when the disc is live.
9.4. The marker may only start and continue a stall count when they are within three (3)
metres of the thrower and all defenders are legitimately positioned (Section 18.1).
9.5. If the marker moves more than three (3) metres from the thrower, or a different player
becomes the marker, the stall count must be restarted at one (1).
9.6. To restart a stall count “at maximum n”, where “n” is a number between one (1) and
nine (9), means to announce “stalling” followed by the count at one more than the last
number uttered prior to the stoppage, or by “n” if that value is greater than “n”.

Whilst there is nothing "explict" about being unable to start a stall count whilst a person is standing over the disc, it does mention the disc being "live".

Now, if some clown is standing over the disc and ordering his team around, I start the count simply because he has claimed possession as the thrower and shouldn't be just standing over it without picking it up. Of course, this depends on how much the person knows and how big of a clown they are. If they are a big clown, then i'd start a stall straight away to get them to pick up the disc. If they aren't a clown at all, or don't know what they are doing then i'd wait for them to pick it up. But under all circumstances, i'd give the thrower fair warning that they need to pick it up and start playing.

Yes, it is against the rules to start a stall when the disc is lying on the ground and the thrower is standing over it. But it is also against the rules for them to stand over the disc and not immediately pick it up. As we can see by shaun's post.
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rrudnic
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 10:27:44 AM »

I thought it was in there somwhere about prestalling but I'm heading to mixed club practice so no time to look. Its definitely established that he has to have posession of the disc though.
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Tenk283
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 05:10:52 AM »

To my knowledge there is a "prestall" in the UPA rules. You can count to ten or something and if they don't pick it up and start playing by then, you can start the stall.

However the rest of us play by the real rules Wink . No prestalling in the wfdf ones. (to my knowledge :S)
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s0urce
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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 09:02:03 AM »

yeah, UPA rules have a "delay of game" call.

The marker has to issue a warning, countdown from 3.  If the thrower doesn't pick it up, then there's a 10 second countdown and stalls begin.
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discman
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 09:23:04 AM »

That is correct.  Pre stall with warnings and then the stall count begins.

Although I've been playing for 10 years or so and I have yet to see this actually done. 
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rrudnic
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 06:55:42 PM »

I knew it was in there, I have never actually seen it done either but its there. I have seen a prestall for the pull done before though.

UPA should be the REAL rules, since the USA is where the best ultimate is, why should we use the rules of inferior competition.
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Tenk283
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« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 06:10:27 AM »

 Grin

There is also a world series in baseball.

My apologies rudnic, in my confusion i forgot america was the centre of the universe...

 Grin
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Tiger
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« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 10:14:23 AM »

Technically, if that tournament in Vancouver last year counted for anything, Canada is where the best ultimate is. Do they use WFDF? UPA?
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Tenk283
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2009, 09:50:55 PM »

Ah, so it wasn't my imagination... Those great people from Canadia did beat USA.
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AndyHarry
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2009, 03:02:14 PM »

A marker may initiate a stall count any time a thrower is in possession of a disc that is 'live' or 'in play,' except after a turnover out of bounds/in the endzone or after a pull out of bounds. After a turnover out of bounds/in the endzone, the thrower must put the disc 'in play' with a ground check after walking the disc to the nearest point on the field of play before the stall count may be initiated. After a pull out of bounds, the thrower must put the disc 'in play' after walking the disc to the brickmark or to the nearest point on the field of play before the stall count may be initiated.

If a player gains possession of a disc in the field of play and his momentum carries him out of bounds or into the endzone being attacked, the marker may initiate a stall count as soon as he is within 3m of the nearest point on the field of play because the thrower is in possession of a 'live' disc. The thrower may not release the disc, though, until he has checked the disc 'in play' at the nearest point on the field of play. I was at practice on a rain-soaked field with thick grass one day and a full-speed/full-extension layout catch right across the goal line caused me to slide more than halfway through the endzone before I could get any traction to rise to my feet. By the time I was able to get vertical, run back to the goal line and check the disc 'in play,' the count was already at 8, which is why I strongly dislike this part of the rule, but I can understand why it is necessary to disallow extra time walking the disc back to the line after making the catch.
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s0urce
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2009, 12:46:09 PM »

Canada plays UPA rules.

I think the rule is completely valid.  Stall counts can begin once posession has been attained, otherwise the rule could be bent so atrociously.   People could then intentionally run/slide O/B and have their team get downfield while they took their time getting the disc in play.  The rule is there to ensure the defence still has a fair play on a disc that still remains in possession of the offence.
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